TL;DR Here is a list of known time saves compared to old TAS of 42:10. Then an estimate for hypothetical gold plan for Ceramic Boots Early Route. Please update info about maximum gold drops, if you have better knowledge.

Note: This applies to English version only, so probably need to do all from scratch for the Japanese version, which is apparently faster anyway.

• Known Timesaves

Each inn visit saves about 150 frames, if you answer "do not continue adventure in the morning" so you are forced into the main menu and you can then select "continue" there, so you skip the inn's lullaby music. This saves a total of about 600 frames (10 seconds) compared to the old TAS.

Block clips before ice world save a few seconds.

Maybe it saves time to use Power magic on the miniboss before Ice Bomber? Also Ice Bomber can have strat where you get behing the boss and hit it to the back of the head, which may be faster. Easy to test both routes to save 1-2 seconds maybe.

Last castle shortcut saves about 20 seconds.

Myconid refight dies to thunder or quake magic instantly. Saves 1 second unless the magic is better used elsewhere. (Thunder has no lag so it saves more time than quake.)

Get Thunder Magic from ocean after getting Pygmy Sword. Probably saves 1-180 frames. (This could be used on the water enemies before the pyramid to save about 8 seconds. It is again a very close call. The benefit almost cancels out perfectly. It takes about 500 frames to collect the extra Thunder Magic x3. The old TAS probably did not bother because it seemed unlikely that it could save any significant time anywhere. But we gain almost all the lost time back before the pyramid, because we save about 480 frames by not needing to kill the water monsters with the Trident. In addition we can probably use Thunder Magic elsewhere to save some frames, or at least about 1 second at the Myconid refight, so it seems that getting the Thunder Magic is worth it by some frames at least.)

Old TAS uses 3x Power magic on the Demon King and 1x Power magic on the final boss. We could use 2x Power magic on both to save some frames, maybe. In any case the old TAS was carefree about the final boss, because 9 hits are used when 8 hits are enough.

Some frames here and there can be saved with more precise movements.

New TAS time could be sub 41:30. Overall, it is not a hard game to optimize, especially if you can bot the gold drops.

• Gold Route for Ceramic Boots Early

Assume maximum gold gained. Probably impossible, but gives the absolute theoretical upper limit for gold route.

30 gold is used for Leather Boots. After that the gold route depends on whether we get Small Spear and/or Ceramic Boots early.

Blue snake = 9

13 crabs = 13 x 6 = 78 (Total = 87)

Secret coins = 2 x 6 = 12 (Total 99)

Small Spear -80 gold (Total = 19)

Then we have 11 mushroom monsters, 6 gold each = 11 x 6 = 66 gold. (Total = 85)

BOSS 1

The old TAS gets 281 gold.

New best is 311?

Total = 396

(Interestingly, skipping 1-2 small coins can lead to better value overall, because big coin RNG is much more important than small coins.)

(Myconid gold value 311 may be unrealistic, but is good enough for route estimation.)

Secret coins at the tree = 6 x 9 = max 54 (It wasted about 140 frames.)

Total so far = 450

(Knight Sword -250 ??? Probably too expensive to be useful.)

(Potion -50 & Ladder Boots -50 = -100 gold. It is faster to buy these later because we have faster boots then, and Ladder Boots would save little time in the temple, and most importantly we get 100 gold for free from the 2nd boss fight, so we do not need to lose any frames on manipulating gold to buy this stuff early.)

We have 5 firestorm left, so we could use them to get about 5 x 6 = 30 gold without any time loss. The rest of the gold must be manipulated with some time loss.

Marine Boots -300

Assuming no Ceramic Boots Early Route, the total should be = 0

Our total = 150

It definitely looks like we can easily get extra 80 gold compared to old TAS to buy the Small Spear!

BOSS 2

Assuming we do the Ceramic Boots Early Route, we now continue from the point after buying Marine Boots, and we have the maximum possible 150 gold left.

(If you want to improve the gold route estimations, you can insert gold from spiders, cannibals and temple monsters here.)

Gragg&Glagg = 300? (Total = 450)

Potion and Ladder Boots -100. (Total = 350)

(Big fish = 1199 gold? Probably too slow.)

Pyramid:

(ghost, small mummy = 42 gold, slow to get)

Depending on Sphinx question RNG we could get great value from 2 big mummies x 94 = 188 (Total = 538)

Flying ice monsters 8 x 152 = 1216

23 penguins x 92 = 2116

Gold gained from penguins and flying monsters = 3332 (Total = 3870)

Oh, I forgot: Before pyramid we can kill water monster x2 to get: 2 x 72 = 144

Total before Ceramic Boots item shop: 4014.

That is more than Ceramic Boots price of 4000.

• List of monster gold drop values

These are the min-max values I've seen. Please update the values if you have better info. If you have the ability, please use emulator tools to find exact values. These are collected manually from about 100 killed monsters of each type and may contain mistakes. For some monsters I list all the seen values, because the drops for that monster type seem more random than usual.

green snake = 1-2

blue snake = 1-9

crab = 1-6

monkey = 0 (can drop small heart)

Myconid = max. around 300?

bat = 0-2 (can drop small heart)

slime = 1-2

spider = 3-6

jungle ghost = 3-6 (can drop small heart)

cannibal = 10-11-13-14-15-23-25-26-27 = max 27?

jungle temple tiny ghost = 1-2

tiny skeleton = 3-6 (can drop small heart)

skeleton = 1-9

Gragg & Glagg = about 300?

big red crab = 27?

coconut monkey = 17? (can drop health refill)

water monster = 1-72? (good value per thunder usage)

ocean chest = max 8 x 17 = 156 (useless due to distance)

deep one = 17?

deep one knight = 45?

ocean temple skeleton = 25? (can drop small heart)

small pink fish = 1-9

Big Fish seen values = 416-440-490-535-552-555-585-589-597-600-617-627-904-989-1199 = max. 1199?

scorpion = 0-45?

pyramid ghost = 42?

small mummy = 42?

big mummy = 30-31-32-33-35-36-37-38-39-40-41-42-43-44-45-50-53-56-57-59-61-66-68-69-71-72-73-74-77-80-94 = max 94?

mountain troll = 75?

skeletons before ice world = 1-9

penguin = 92?

flying ice monster = 152?

(The rest of the monsters don't matter because buying anything is useless after Ceramic Boots.)

• Misc

Elixir/Potion use on moving platform shifts player X/Y-position. No use found, but allows reaching a few pixels higher compared to normal jump. This can be stacked once by first using the automatic Elixir and then manual Potion, but this requires a location where something can damage the player. Otherwise we are limited to using only the manually activated Potion, which gives maybe 2 pixels of extra height on a moving platform. (It works because the platform continues to move for one frame while everything else is paused during the potion effect.)

Useless: Quake magic can cause player to float slowly in downward elevators, if timed with jump.

Shield Magic would save some time while climbing ladders because no need to stop to avoid spear traps, but getting Shield (cost: 500) and equipping it will lose too much time.

Is save file corruption possible? I can soft reset while saving at the inn. If timed correctly it can delete the save file, but so far no corruption is observed?

Can somebody make a casual test TAS of the ice world with Ceramic Boots? It is not hard to optimize. You can look at the route from the old TAS and compare how much faster you are. Rough estimation is okay, since if the Ceramic Boots save only something like 10 seconds, then Ceramic Boots Early Route is definitely ruled out completely and will never be worth it. If Ceramic Boots save 30 seconds, then it is likely worth it. If Ceramic Boots save around 20 seconds, then it is a very close call, almost to the frame.

Is anyone interested teaming up for a new TAS? It looks like some other players have given up because the RNG manipulation is hard. But we could easily improve the old TAS by about 40 seconds anyway. If somebody can use the bots like eien86, then we could do really well indeed.

Also, using the Japanese version can additionally save more than a minute due to new inn route plan, potentially also skipping the Return spell.

Have you discovered anything interesting not mentioned here? Can you find better gold route for Ceramic Boots Early? Can you investigate with emulator tools what happens in the out of bounds area before ice world? You can pass through into the wall but is there any trigger or glitch that could be activated, or is it just solid wall everywhere?

TL;DR The gold plan above is actually short of about 456 gold because it is better to take wind boosts instead of gold from flying ice monsters.

Accually, I forgot two details about the Ceramic Boots Early Route:

Since we need to use sword in the block clips, and then kill penguins with Trident, we must make one extra weapon switch. This will lose time.

Another thing is that if we kill all the flying monsters, then we will lose time because we could use their wind boosts instead. Old TAS gets 1 wind boost, but we could manipulate monsters better to get maybe 3 boosts. So now we are short on money by about 3 x 152 = 456. If we can get even more wind boosts, then those will probably save more time than what the gold is worth in buying Ceramic Boots.

It really looks like the Ceramic Boots Early route is not good.

The only chance I see now is if the big fish can drop 2000 or more gold? Or maybe there is another rare high-value drop on the route? Then there is a small chance, because we can take all wind boosts we want and still get enough money for Ceramic Boots.

In a TAS perspective, it's a lot different to think about the run than the normal speedrun way, i don't know what to say with the knight sword i feel like it's good because it deals x2 damage against the small spear, also you didn't mention it but magic damage (thunder quake and firestorm) increased acording to your hearts, the more you have, the more damage it will do.

For the rest i can maybe help you on some knowledge stuff.

Redoing a TAS is super cool, i can see some time save to get close to sub 40 maybe. Feel free to ask question.

For the Potion/Elixir use buf can you show me a vidéo of it ? i don't get the X/Y position

Thanks, I did not know magic damage increases with hearts. This game is so cool. :D

Yes, Knight Sword is probably best for human speedrun, but in a TAS it takes too much time to collect 250 gold and equip the sword compared to just making a few more hits on Gragg & Glagg with Small Spear.

i don't get the X/Y position

When moving platform is going downwards, just use elixir and you can see that player position is moved by about 2 pixels upwards because the platform will keep moving down while player is stopped. (It is more difficult to notice when platform moves upwards, because then player is pushed 1-2 pixels downward relative to the platform.) You can also do it in elevators in the ice world: When elevator is coming up or down, just hold Potion to use it immediately when elevator stops. Now your Y-coordinate is shifted by about 1 pixel, so you do not fit into the door. You need to jump to reset your Y-coordinate to the ground level. This is useless in itself, but often the combination of two useless tricks can lead to useful discovery.

I have never played the Japanese version, so I wonder what the best TAS route is there? Can you use death warp to inns to save time? For example: Visit Lilypad inn, then die after rescuing the dwarf to death warp back to Lilypad inn. Maybe saves a few seconds in the Japanese version?

I know Japanese version gives 3x thunder after Sphinx. Is there maybe some other small difference? Are monster gold drops the same in each version?

Some drops seem very rare, so I wonder if there is possibility that scorpion or blue snake can drop small hearts in the desert?

i think it's a bug on US version, because the sphinx tell you that he give you magic thunder but not really :(

Blue nake can drop you hearts, not the scorpion (edit : i was wrong, the blue snake doesn't drop you hearts)

You don't have to save on INN to get the warp on it, you just have to talk to the guy and say no it will work for death warp / return

edit : i was wrong, the blue snake doesn't drop you hearts

LOL! I almost had a "HEART" attack. :D

I can almost clip into wall in the quicksand cave before the pyramid. You kill the bats to make the platforms appear. Then you can stand on the top platform and use Potion to increase player Y-coordinate. Now you can almost go inside the wall, but player gets pushed out. I have not tested it much, so maybe some clip can happen there if you have better timing/position.

ye you need a monster to push you a little bit more, i tried stuffs and never got it here

One idea I had is to push monsters with the Shield Magic.

Because Shield Magic does not damage monsters. So you can push them to surprising places.

For example, in the jungle temple near the heart container: Activate grey blocks. Then go around and use Shield Magic to push tiny skeleton down. Now tiny skeleton can clip you inside grey blocks. It is useless at this location, but demonstrates the surprising use case for Shield Magic.

Is this route viable for the Japanese version:

Visit inn in Alsedo.

After Gragg & Glagg, death warp back to Alsedo.

Get heart and pygmy armor in Alsedo Ocean, and come back to Purapril from the door that is near the start of the game.

This makes short route to pygmy armor and heart, but can't use cannibal death warp.

I tried to find Japanese text dump for the game but was not able to do it, so could you help make a byte count list for the Japanese version, because it would be nice to know the exact length of each Sphinx question in Japanese also:

Which of these items is not sold at the Wanderer weapon shop? (61)

After defeating Gragg & Glagg, what did you receive? (52)

What’s the name of the queen in the elf village? (48)

What item helped you to traverse Maugham Desert? (48)

Which of these monsters did you battle first? (45)

Which of these stores does not sell weapons? (44)

What’s the first type of magic you acquired? (44)

Which key do you need to enter the Pyramid? (43)

What’s the name of the dwarf village? (37)

How much does a charmstone cost? (32)

Maybe an interesting route for the Japanese TAS, and some ideas may apply to real-time speedrun also:

Visit inn in Alsedo.

Buy Small Spear. (80 gold)

Buy Ladder Boots & Potion. (100 gold)

Buy Marine Boots. (300 gold)

After Gragg & Glagg, death warp back to Alsedo.

Get Heart and Pygmy Armor.

Defeat Sphinx.

Visit inn in Begonia, the dragon village.

Get Pygmy Sword while traveling to Ice World.

Finish Ice World normally.

Buy Ceramic Boots. (No worries, we have lots of gold.)

Use penguin to death warp back to Begonia.

Defeat tyrant dragon and use death warp again to return to Begonia.

Finish the rest of the game.

The Return Spell is skipped, and this route should save lots of time because Pygmy Sword and Ice World are done in one trip. The route feels strange, so maybe it will not work. There are so many possible routes! :D

Japanese version is faster. If you die you respawn at inn, unlike in the English version.

-Japanese version gives you more leeway with Elixirs. This means in the desert you can survive with one less heart than the English version. Make sure to hold down when taking constant damage like in deserts to avoid any knockback.

-Because of the above it MIGHT be faster to completely skip the underwater temple.

• There is a clip I found in falling blocks, I will put it in userfiles. It seems useless in the position I found it, but it might be useful elsewhere. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/62185639693467947 -Getting stuck under the breakable blocks and then getting pushed is faster in some cases, but you will lose health flexibility. A user submitted an example video on SRC in their guide section. https://www.speedrun.com/wonder_boy_in_monster_world/guides -The quick jump up before Maou is quick and dirty and does not screw anything up for whatever reason as per Aqfaq's note.

Good info in this thread.

https://tasvideos.org/Forum/Topics/2323?CurrentPage=4&PageSize=25&Sort=CreateTimestamp

Thank you for the info, master TAS man CoolHandMike!

Apparently there are some hidden doors in the game:

https://tcrf.net/Wonder_Boy_in_Monster_World

They do not say where the doors are located, other than that they are "deep in the game" which probably means they are far in the out of bounds areas? But where are these doors located exactly?

The most promising "big glitch potential" is clipping into the wall before the ice world. The height of the blocks is 4 layers, so we can clip in 3 different heights depending on which layer of blocks we stand on. The player wraps around the screen after a very long time, but I have no tools for verifying that we can't activate some trigger or door from the out of bounds area. Can somebody investiage this, so we can be sure about it? I don't know how to read memory to see if the out of bounds area has doors or chests or other triggers.

Here is also an interesting challenge:

What is the highest amount of lag you can make in the game? This could be useful for glitching the game, if we can get super high lag. My best attempt is using firestorm while Ice Bomber is dying. The money bags, coins and firestorm cause lots of lag. Another place is the jungle temple: Dwarf digs for coins to cause lag, then we destroy lots of grey blocks, we use firestorm to attack enemies while enemies drop coins. This will make lots of lag, but I don't know how to maximise 100% lag.

Route II (5 Hearts, Get Return)

• Buy Leather Boots.

• Buy Small Spear. (80 gold)

• Buy Marine Boots. (300 gold)

• Visit dwarf village inn.

• Death warp to dwarf village.

• Refill elixir from the jungle temple.

• Buy Ladder Boots & Potion. (100 gold)

• Visit Purapril inn.

• Get Pygmy Sword.

• Get 3x Thunder Magic from the ocean. (Takes about 500 frames and will be saved back later.)

• Get Water Temple Heart. (Takes only about 5 seconds.)

• Get Return.

• Use Return to Purapril inn.

• Sleep to refill Return magic.

• Equip: Potion, Thunder

• Use 2x Thunder on water monster before the pyramid.

• Use 1x Thunder on big mummies.

• Defeat Sphinx with shortest possible quizz.

(It takes a long time to get the Thunder magic reward, so it may be better to answer 4/5 questions correctly. I don't know the question lenghts in the Dynastic Hero, ENG/JPN.)

• Get Bracelet from Dragon Village.

• Use Return to Purapril inn.

• Sleep to refill Return magic.

Equip: Sword (for grey blocks and block clip)?

Equip also: Firestorm? Thunder?

• Do 1 or 2 block clips?

(Get health refill from chest before ice world? It takes some seconds so almost all block clip timesave is lost there.)

• Must have at least 2 full hearts available to make a damage boost skip near the Pygmy Boots. (This means we can take damage from penguins only once. That is good, because it greatly reduces the complexity of the network of all possible timelines.)

• Use 1x Power magic on one of the minibosses, but which one?

• Use 1x Power magic on Ice World boss?

• Buy Ceramic Boots.

• Return to Purapril inn.

• Sleep to refill Return magic.

• Get Pygmy Armor.

• Return to Purapril inn.

• Sleep to refill Return magic.

Volcano

• Get 2x Power magic.

• Use 2x Power on tyrant dragon.

• Talk to blacksmith.

• Talk to Dragon Village elder.

• Get Legendary Sword from blacksmith.

• Return to Purapril inn.

• Sleep to quickly restore full-sized body.

Dark Castle

• Equip: Legendary Sword

(Also equip: Firestorm for enemy manipulation? Power Magic should be already equipped on the right hand? You can switch magic spells while switching boots, which allows perfect enemy manipulation with correct spells. Equipping to left hand is 2 frames faster, so better to keep more permanent items on the right hand.)

• Get Legendary Armor, to survive final boss cutscene. (Is there another option for this? Probably not because Legendary Armor is directly on the route?)

• Use 2x Thunder magic on water monsters.

• (Use 1x Power magic on Demon King?)

Space Ship and Final Boss

• (Use ~9x Firestorm to manipulate enemy movements?)

• (Use ~8x Thunder to manipulate enemy movements?)

• Use 1x Thunder on Myconid refight. (Saves about 1 second.)

• (Use 1x Power magic on final boss, first form? Pobably not because this form has very short invulnerability period, so better to use Power on Demon King?)

• Use 2x Power magic on final boss, final form.

The Dynamic Hero version has two damage boost skips in the ice world.

The first one skips the statues. Snow ape can throw ice block or jump at you, so you can get on the ledge. It is 4 blocks high, which may be the maximum height possible in the game. I tried to do it in Genesis version but failed.

The second damage skip is just before Pygmy Boots, again from snow ape.

I was not able to do the platform skip before Demon King even when changing boots. Please confirm if it is possible or not, because I do not understand how it works at all.

Speedrunners doing this version would be really cool to see, because you can take a risk and try the ape skip and save maybe 8 seconds. If Sphinx gives you worst possible quiz then you lose exactly that amount of time anyway. LOL.

"I was not able to do the platform skip before Demon King even when changing boots. Please confirm if it is possible or not, because I do not understand how it works at all."

Are you using Marine boots ? it only work with those one

Yes. I tried all boots, but maybe I am just a bad gamer so I fail to grab the rope, so it would be nice to confirm with some GOOD player that the shorcut does not work on Dynastic Hero version. XD

There is some interest in tasing the game by some people but current situation is that nobody understands the RNG behavior well enough to make a TAS with confidence.

If you or somebody you know is interested in deciphering RNG behavior in games, feel free to carry the torch.