CanadaThere was an agreement made last year that the GBC game belonged on the konami collection leaderboard (those boards were only to track the GBC version, not GB), but now you want it back here. Everyone will have different opinions on what to do with multigame carts, each side has good arguments. My opinion hasn't changed since I made those boards.
I have removed those runs so you can track them here. Just don't do what Super Mario Bros. 1 does and hides the SNES version as a misc. category.
It will be tracked with the GB version. https://www.speedrun.com/cvbr
Not sure where the time starts by candle spawn came from but the timing on this board has always been when the character starts to move and stops, I don't think that was confusing at all. I had no idea that the timing at the start can vary by a few frames, but it almost doesn't really matter in the end for current speedruns for frame counting because the game is far from optimized to need milliseconds to determine the top times unless two top times are the same. I think it's fine the way it is now using 6.5s at the title screen.
I myself almost never frame count runs unless it's a question if the timing will put me in the next full second bracket. But the RTA people don't care for accuracy is a baseless argument, some boards don't really need to frame count specifically, and for games that are optimized they obviously do. All timing rules are subjective anyway, TAS times and RTA times don't necessarily have the same rules, especially those that start at Power On.
Requesting mod for https://www.speedrun.com/layla
I do have a submitted run pending.
The only mod deleted his account along with all of his runs, so the board is empty at the moment.
Ok you all rushed with some dumb categories, it's fine you can all talk through it. It was still odd to see JSR's concern not being answered as to why Tetris was made to just 5 lines. Is it because you don't like playing the game?
This is one of few NES games where High Score being a main category actually makes sense since the game has no real ending and the goal of the actual competition was about score. 25, 50 lines Tetris as an arbitrary and challenging category can also work.
I don't get the random lame categories just because you don't want to play the whole game for free (I call these fake) WRs, just move on instead. If you're going to have SMB1 + RR as a dumb category why not RR + Tetris? You can skip SMB1 at the start too.
It should be [High Score], [Any%] (Which is all 3 games with 25 or 50 lines for Tetris), and the rest of the single/dual games as Misc., or their own category extension board where they can reside.
No restrictions unless you ever want to run the low% category. As for running solely the 3rd chapter, I am suggesting you can still run on a file that you completed since there is no intro for it. Wouldn't make sense to force you to complete the first 2 games over and over each time you want to attempt the last section.
Just a reminder to add a 0 to your milliseconds time. EX: submitting 43.54 will result as a 43.054 submission on the site. We'll use milliseconds for ILs only.
Yes they will be. All times will be IGT. You can use a used file which has all the characters/upgrades to get the time as low as possible. Only for AVGN 1 tutorial you need to start from new in order to play it. As for the last level in each game, I think you have to wait for the cutscenes to start before the time is recorded, then you would just reset the game and show us proof of final time on the stage select.
If playing on a used file those times have to be lower than when you first entered the level in order to be accepted, unless you're playing these levels for the first time on the file. This only applies for the last levels of each game as the time is only updated if you beat it, as any other stage show you what time you get right after beating it.
Phone emulators are usually not allowed I have not seen boards in which they're allowed. Sorry, only the listed emulators are approved for accuracy reasons, which you'll see on most GB/GBC leaderboards.
Requesting mod for https://www.speedrun.com/metalgun_slinger
Offline for 2+ months, I messaged off-site once I submitted my runs, hasn't responded to my messages.
I skipped a boss on accident, I was messing around cause I knew I wasn't going to PB, but if I kept playing properly after the skip I may have lol
What @crazyjesse said is that these unlicensed game carts can still be played on actual famicom hardware since they are basically famicom carts, and some have been released for the NES in physical carts. You say intended, fact is companies like Joy Van for example had their games published for the NES as well, the only difference could be a title screen name change, but the point is they used the exact rom so it's fair to say all unlicensed famiclone games can be played on NTSC, regardless if you think they aren't playing "properly". Not that it matters that there's already a couple Super Game leaderboards here some with more than 1 runner, all play on NTSC.
In other words, if it exists on FC or NES, we'll play it there.
@Komrade is correct, there are numerous retro emulators that are pretty much accurate. NES has mesen, bizhawk and punes as the go to emulators for that system.
I practiced all my FDS games on mesen since I have an older Everdrive which doesn't do save states for it. I can assure you, there is no time difference in gameplay nor did I experience any of the games to run or behave any faster than my console.
Unless there is substantial proof that emulator offers actual gameplay advantage over console, what exactly is the reason to separate? Unless your concern is what method people use for a controller? Your community together should decide in the end honestly, cause this just looks like a random impulse decision after 4 years of this leaderboard being up.
Based on the video from the first post of this thread https://www.speedrun.com/cvta/thread/4uax7/2#vapez and how KDL also did it based on the post above it by the content mod. Rules have been updated to reflect the changes.
I'm not here to tell you what to do with your thumbnail or title, you can do what you want really up to you. I've ran over 100 games, I don't bother making custom thumbnails with WR in them just so that I have to change it again when someone beats my times. Title is sufficient for me since it's easier to change.
Looks like only a 0.1s difference from the original time conversion, thanks for showing. Not at all much considering this type of lag isn't represented in the actual runs since we destroy the eyeballs, and hopefully not taking any damage as well. That would amount to just about an extra 2s if the entire run has lag like this throughout, which we know doesn't, so it will be even less. Like other games with substantial lag, differences in lag emulation could make a difference, testing it is difficult based on its inconsistency and RNG attributed to it.
Like other emulators as WiiU VC and 3DS VC, tools aren't there yet, so we do timer comparisons as a baseline to start. We'll do that for this game too like how other GB boards have done it, call it a work in progress. Otherwise we're just stuck in a standstill here not moving forward, and we want to move on. I'm certain the top time won't be changed drastically, based on what we have as a basis from the first video. Someone if anyone ever can do more testing let us know, and we can always return to this. We won't separate emulators from hardware just because one happens to emulate the game better than another is no reason to separate it, this argument only implies to official released and not 3rd party emulators (most people already know which 3rd party emulators are accepted). You want to argue about accessibility, the AC version is the easiest to obtain. I doubt anything other than GB community actually does time conversions, though I don't know. I know NES doesn't (FDS just removes load times which is easily to calculate), even for Super Mario Bros, one of the most popular titles to speedrun.
@Mazzin I'll change your time soon (it'll be 18:31 at the moment). I'll also update the rules to reflect that time change, and if you want to update your title to reflect that you can go ahead.
@Mazzin You're probably right, it won't be much of a difference than what was first calculated. Can we see the video? Just wondering what you did. Testing lag and comparing it is more difficult than just comparing two timers run down I think, especially with the RNG and execution involved, so averaging it for the entire run wouldn't make sense. No idea how to do that so for now we're looking at timing differences.
We have the first stage counting down the timer all the way and I think that's a good basis for determining the framerate of the game, much like what KDL did here, so . .
@Oh_DeeR I think in the nature of competitiveness it was always to use the fastest version, even if it's the most obscure, like you said with the iQue player. Eventually something faster may be discovered in other platforms. I am not familiar with the N64 Zelda games so I don't know how it's decided to keep one game all platforms together and the other separate. This game though is not close to being optimal, or popular enough for competitiveness. So far nothing suggests there's any gameplay exploits one version can use over the other, it's seems to be pretty much on the hardware side. Not enough grounds to consider separating especially for such a tiny board compared to KDL. With KDL I think everything together is fine too though, run with what you have or want and the final time may be changed based on the hardware used.
When we talk by faster version, I think of it as one that has certain glitches to it other revisions don't have, not necessarily the actual hardware that would give advantage due to framerate. I don't think it makes sense to separate a Revision A game from Revision B, run the fastest if you want a good competitive time. We convert times to be comparable for GB games, to be fair. For other platforms such as NES for example, it's a different perspective since PAL games run slower, almost no one speedruns on that system, unless the games are exclusive to it or has glitches other systems don't have (like Blaster Master for example) or it's the only thing they have to run with. A lot of times people run the Famicom version over international releases due to it being the first revision having glitches others don't, or faster text for example. Some boards still separate them just because of the faster text, which personally I don't think it should be, while others everything is together and up to you to run whichever version you want.
When Konami released these games and doesn't really care how they build their emulators and just release as is. It's too bad since again it's an official release. The Adventure one plays slightly faster, while Belmont's Revenge I believe is almost identical, not exact but way closer, someone can correct me on that.
For timing comparisons, we can again go by the first video to start for now.
Based on the times. SGB2: 10:12.567 --- 59.7275fps AC: 10:02.467 --- 60.7288fps
This makes it still slower than the SGB which runs at 61.1678fps SGB factor is 1.024115 based on this the AC version factor is 1.016764
If people are fine with this, we will use this factor to convert AC version timing. It could possibly change if someone with the AC version wants to do some more tests, this can be a good estimate for now if no one has issues with it.
@Mazzin this will make your time on the board converted to 18:31.391. Are you fine with that?
It's your run, you've already said you feel they should share the same category, I'm also fine with not separating them, if we're voting here. We've already established that the run can share the board. The only thing is the time needs to be comparable. Those who have come forward with evidence saying it's faster can tell us how much faster it's playing at, and we'll move on from there.
@Komrade it isn't fair, splitting isn't a solution I will agree. The only thing I have done so far is accept the two runs, don't think I've done anything wrong there.
Moving the run back and forth seems pointless, why not just make it stay as is? When the time factor is found, its time be will increased and @Mazzin has no issue with that.
If @Mazzin is fine with putting the AC version under it's own temporary category until a proper time conversion is proven, I will do that. The board will look as it was before, just with a new category for the latest version. It won't be a permanent thing. Their run will still be considered the Record.
Platforms are set by the site, I cannot make custom ones. The AC emulator itself isn't really considered it's own unique platform, it's just an emulator. I don't see the need to make it Switch, PC or PS4 platforms for the same emulator. Otherwise all old emulator runs here would be on the PC platform instead. Easier for all to be tagged under emulator, and write in your description which one used.
If you want to do more testing to determine what factor you want to use go ahead, we can go with that. I mentioned earlier the first post comparison makes the AC seem about 1.6% faster, which would make your new time 18:30.
I could remove the version column displayed, and instead just write it in your submission descriptions going forward, so people would know which one you used. I think that will be better unless you want it to stay.
