The intro cutscenes on Against All Odds and Tanker Commander cannot be skipped until after the first line, which is annoying, but we can certainly retime these to start with the cutscene skip of the actual mission. I think it makes more sense that way, for sure.

Big Smoke has no need to change, though. Sweet & Kendl is not a mission, just a text line.

Settings, controls, windowing, and cursor locking are all either essentials or preferences related to the game, and have no bearing on the run itself. This is a strat, one you've said has distinction different from any other strat used as it requires no actual input during the run. (Except the replay line skip I guess, which is not necessarily as consequential as EST)

@overcooler yes, my take is arbitrary. So what? Is that problematic? Does it make me less of a speedrunner or something?

[quote]It just sounds like you cannot be bothered to unlock the true potential of runs and are happy with """classic%""".[/quote]

Wtf lol. Yeah, I don't wanna change file names and toggle FPS, I don't really think that's a part of the game. I'll sit my ass on the Trial by Dirt sanchez in VC and dupe 50 times, because even if that gives me a vile headache, it's a part of the game.

Disallow to all

My opinion on this is I don't like "meta-gaming" stuff in runs. The less "setup" required to perform a run, the better.

We're here to play games fast. Operative word is play. Renaming files and toggling FPS isn't "playing" -- it's all cool stuff you can do to change the behavior of the game, but it doesn't necessarily make the run more enjoyable or impressive. Often, just more tedious, because of the overhead/meta-game involved.

Hi there. Ran and hosted during this event. Most fun I've ever had at a speedrun event.

• Good location, much better than Växjö. Having a mall and train station right next to us is dope. The McD's sucks, but the pro strat there is to stock up on snacks from the grocery to satiate those late night food cravings.
• Street Boyz was fun, that sort of organic culture that grows from each event should be nourished. It was smart to move them out of the stream room.
• Tournaments were fantastic, no complaints there, SpeedGaming is a good presence to have at ESA.
• Arcade continues to grow, hoping Daytona makes a comeback!
• Game selection continues to be dope. Fun races, fun memes, awful games block is always a highlight.

• Please please please get more PCs so that the quiet practice room actually has some. I never saw any PCs in there. The PC room proper was a bit of a mess. People really shouldn't be allowed to setup their personal machines and keep them there the entire week. You're occupying valuable real estate that could be used. Personal machines should be limited to laptops that you take with you when you're done, or at least enforce a rule where you can't leave your own hardware sitting unused for so long in such a busy space of the event.
• There's a lot of hardware, PCs and games and consoles alike, sitting around the venue. Maybe people should tag their machines appropriately so we know who owns them?
• Compensating volunteers with hotel bar vouchers is something I disagree with. Give us a discounted ticket next time. I never went to the hotel bar, echoing what others have said here that it's overpriced.
• Hosting is too easy. Donation readers have it way worse and it's not fair to them. I know hosts have complained about having extra responsibilities, but something has to be done there to balance the workload between hosts and readers.

[quote]In my opinion, it should start whenever you have control in the cutscene, because of traffic & traffic light abuse.[/quote]

Traffic is always different though. How would you be able to abuse it from the cutscene? Unless you did something obvious like hit New Game while standing in the LV strip, and in that case, your proposal wouldn't really be preventing that.

I'm willing to change the timing rules now, I held off on this because if there were other discussions to be had, I wanted to change additional rules all at once instead of a lot of minor updates. For example, what if someone found ES dupe was consistent at a certain FPS? But nothing like that has happened, so it seems there's no interest in that sort of discussion.

I realize that I'm contradicting myself because we changed AM rules pretty quickly, so timing rule could've been changed then. I guess with AM changes that I was hoping would garner interest for the category, which did work, for a few days anyway.

Correct. Allowed in all categories.

I was going to delete this, but I'll leave it here as an example of FLYING's character and why he is not welcome on our boards.

Setting up a petty trap proves nothing except that you continue to waste your time with people who want nothing more to do with you. Which is your fault, by the way. You could've been one of the greatest SA runners ever, but you ruined that for yourself. Don't blame us for growing tired of your nonsense.

Thanks

Hey all, this thread is now locked and the vote is closed. Thanks for participating!

Based on the results, the following changes have been made:

All Missions now renamed to All Story Missions Gang Territory skip is now allowed.

These changes are effective immediately. Hopefully this is a positive change and will incentivize some new runs on the board! Thanks.

From Nick007J: "The story was, when 1C bought rights to GTA IV, they also agreed to release all the trilogy games (3, VC, SA). Because, hilariously enough, SA was never officially released in Russia by then, even without translation"

This is easily verified by a quick Google of 1C to find they are not a pirate game distributor, but an actual, for real Russian software developer and publisher.

Have you tried undoing the changes you've made to your game, and seeing if it crashes on the "unchanged" version?

If that works fine, we can then make changes one at a time to see what goes wrong and if we can avoid it.

Said it already, I think, but my thoughts on runs with no video: IMO, when you click on a time on a speedrun leaderboard, you should be able to watch it.

If the video is gone, we can no longer peer review it. If something is illegitimate about the run that the verifier did not catch, we can never know, because the evidence is gone.

The peer review is important because it makes the evidence of the run being legit available for everyone, not just mods. It's kind of a checks and balances thing, right? That way, we're not blindly trusting mods that the added scores are in fact legit. We can see it for ourselves.

I don't like the argument of "a moderator verified it, and that is evidence" because uh.. Twin Galaxies. Lots of their scores don't have verifiable proof, only "referee" verification. This approach has caused them a lot of headache and controversy because of corrupt referees, or otherwise impossible scores making it onto their leaderboards. This is why I think video evidence is important. This keeps it from happening. The proof is out there for everyone to see.

Now, that said, I'm quite aware that this (largely) applies to times that aren't competitive, but then we've just circled back around to subjective enforcement for WR/competitive times vs. ones lower on the list.

The only thought on this that I have is yea, they were verified at some point, but there's no way to retroactively know if they're legit. If the run has something against the rules that wasn't caught by the mod, we can never know, because the video is gone.

All things considered, it's a pretty small issue, but I appreciate the discussion. It is a shame that old, legendary runs/runners can no longer be seen. The good news is, I've only rejected them, so we can always re-verify if the videos emerge or if we decide to allow these ancient non-video runs back onto the boards.

I left out this topic because it slipped my mind but I also wanted to discuss the frame limiter. Should we consider lifting the rule enforcing frame limiter? If we do, should we enforce a "max FPS" like 60?

I see a few merits to this: (1) if frame limiter was truly a necessity it wouldn't be needed as a rule - people would just play with it ON all the time anyway. (2) it's an in-game option that everyone has access to, what makes it different than "vehicle density" in IV era games? (3) higher frame rates allow for "better" pause buffering, allowing more people to skip lines and get the FIAB om0 call too (maybe, idk if anyone has issues with this right now), and (4) who wants to play with 25 FPS anyway?

Drawbacks are of course: physics oddities, higher barrier to entry (maybe), ES dupe is most consistent with 25 FPS, and maybe some other stuff that suffers at higher FPS (Madd Dogg, randomly dying, etc)

Hello,

In light of some recent discussion on these forums, I am opening this thread for community members and runners alike to put forward their thoughts and feedback on some topics I will cover below.

#Important stuff

[big]New timing start[/big] As it stands now, the way we start timing is bad and inconsistent. The official start timing is currently "when control is gained over CJ" -- the reason this is bad is because you can sometimes gain control on a black screen, thus making it inconsistent.

My proposal is: start timing on cutscene skip. This is easily implemented as pretty much everyone uses tduva's autosplitter and this is how it starts timing. If anyone has an argument for changing timing to something else, I'd love to hear it.

[big]Subjective rule enforcement for WRs[/big] Currently, runs that will be considered for World Record are subject to extra scrutiny. For a run to be considered WR, it must begin from a fresh "new game" which includes the loading screen.

It has been brought to my attention that if we're going to subjectively force things like "fresh new game" for WRs only, it would stand to reason that we would relax on the rules for other "deficiencies" that impact the run on a similarly minor scale, such as accidental cheats.

My question is: do we enforce "WR rules" for all runs? And if we don't, do we "relax" the rules for non-WR runs and forgive things such as accidental cheats?

[big]All Missions[/big] With the addition of No Major Glitches to the leaderboard, All Missions is now in a bit of a weird spot. Its original purpose was to both function as an "NMG" category itself, while also being fleshed out and incorporating some optional mission chains. The question now is: do we change All Missions, or leave it in its current form?

A couple ideas for this have been explored already:

Powdinet's post, proposing All Story Missions: https://www.speedrun.com/post/x85zl MHMD's thread, further exploring this idea: https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/apick My own post in the above thread, proposing All Assets: https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/apick/2#9pmcy

#Other stuff

[big]Runs with no video[/big] Over the years, lots of run videos have been lost. Some of these were able to be restored (thanks to Twitch changing the way video URLs work), but some have been lost forever.

I personally believe that when you click on a run on these leaderboards, you should be able to watch it. Therefore, we've been updating run video links accordingly, and rejecting runs that no longer have proof.

If you stumble upon a run -- main category, misc category or IL -- that has no video, please let us know so we can update or reject it.

[big]ILs[/big] Over the last two week we've been hammering away at restoring the ILs board. We now have, as of writing, 482 IL runs on the board, or alternatively, 32 new IL runs per day.

If we are still missing any IL runs, please notify us in the appropriate thread. Do not discuss IL runs in this thread.

[big]FLYING[/big] All of FLYING's runs have been removed. This decision may or may not be permanent, pending new information. You can find more information here: https://www.speedrun.com/gtasa/thread/f3hsl

Many community members have been vocal about FLYING, his runs, and his tenure on our leaderboard. However, I am hoping we can focus on the future of our leaderboard and not waste more breath on the happenings with FLYING. As such, please avoid FLYING discussion in this thread. Thanks.

Whew. I think that covers everything. Feel free to leave your thought(s) on whatever you like. Thanks.

[quote]Then why ban accidental cheats for everyone? I'll tell you why, because you people only see what's on the fucking surface, that's why[/quote]

Well, no, it's not something I've considered and it's a good point. I wasn't mod when we cracked down on this, but if we're going to subjectively "relax" on the rules for newbies, it's also reasonable to forgive accidental cheats alongside NG+ effects.

Curious on your opinion for this though: RoK accidentally entered a HESOYAM cheat the other day. He was on the way to a bustedwarp, so the health and armor didn't really matter, but obviously he got $250K. But nonetheless it is a much more impactful cheat than accidentally spawning a Rancher, or forcing sunny weather. Should this run be considered illegitimate? Would it be forgiven, unless he made use of this advantage? (i.e. buying a shitload of SMG ammo for Local Liquor Store)

[quote]You still haven't answered why it was okay to ban ginput and not ban other mods that arguably give advantage.[/quote]

What other mods? You mean like windowers and dinput8?

Honestly I'd be fine with unbanning GInput, but I've not done it yet because we haven't had the discussion and I don't just want to upend the leaderboards based on my personal opinion. I am trying to be objective and fair. I am not perfect, though, and that's why it is good to have these talks -- perspective helps.

[quote]You still haven't answered how you time runs when control can be gained on a black screen, are you a magician?[/quote]

We can change this, because you're right. Timing start on cutscene skip is easy enough to implement because the autosplitter already does this.

[quote]Once again, why speedrun & more importantly why care about this website when the leaderboard is made up of some subjective rules randoms made up?[/quote]

Speedrun for fun. You don't have to care for this website or LB, obviously, but the rules are always going to be subjective because this is a hobby and the rules are decided based on what we think is fair and fun. I wouldn't call anyone "random", they've been around for a while; but if you're saying that people shouldn't be given free pass because of longevity I will agree with you.

[quote]You try to justify the decisions that are made, but you don't talk about the people who made these decisions[/quote]

Because I'm trying to be fair and objective. In doing so, it makes sense to evaluate things on their own merit instead of who said it. If you want people in charge who have their ear to the ground and are involved with the game, I grant you that -- it's what I'm trying to do.

[quote]I have brought these things up so so many times, whether it was here or the discord and spoiler: nothing happened.[/quote]

These frustrations are fair and I have certainly been vocal about other things in the past (different things than you, perhaps)

[quote]So you can say personal things about me, but I can't do that, I'm going on about it because you started this, it's funny how once you hear something that you don't want to, you backtrack to question the topic.[/quote]

You're probably right. I am making an active effort to leave personal stuff out of this post. It's not necessary and will only make both of us angry and continue the pattern of nothing being resolved. If I spoke out of turn, that's on me. I will work on it.

[quote]I did let someone know, nearly a year ago as well, ironically. Mouse sprinting is retarded, they should have had him do a run with inputs, he has also should probably send over his handling file after the runs.[/quote]

To me, (and correct me if I'm wrong), this is a complicated matter with no real answer at hand. How do we ensure flying is "clean"? Patrick stated a bunch of reasons why this won't be easy. Hand cam is a good idea, but won't catch everything. If anyone has ideas, I'd love to hear them. For now, I'm just trying to put it out there that I'm listening and I understand this and something should be done.

[quote]why not make AM a proper all missions category like in III and VC?[/quote]

Vice City's AM is equally arbitrary, though. No Chopper Checkpoints, no Trial by Dirt/Test Track/PCJ Playground, no RC races, no stadium events, not even Boatyard is in that run because Checkpoint Charlie doesn't "change the name of the save file"

That said, if people want an All Missions category with more stuff in it, I am not opposed to this.

[quote]he won't send his scripts to Patrick who asked multiple times[/quote]

This is fair. We should have pressed him harder because the burden of proof is on him -- not us -- as he's been dishonest with us in the past. As I stated above, how to move forward on this is pretty sticky (IMO), so I will certainly listen to ideas and opinions on this.

[quote]When was the last time Jolzi and Gael showed any interest in this game?[/quote]

Jolzi and Gael are series mods and were appointed as such years and years ago, when this website was "speedrunrecords.com" -- this is why their modding is still "in effect" here on the SA boards. They occasionally verify runs, but don't really do much else except for issues that pertain to multiple/all games in the series. One of your complaints earlier was consistency across the LBs, series mods are one way for the games to be tied together in that sense. If there was an issue that spanned multiple games, I wouldn't really be able to do much about it unless SA was involved. Folks like Jolzi, Gael, Odyssic, Powdinet would have more say in these matters as they're the foundation to everything that's been built up over the years. Do you feel as though they're ineffective in these roles?

Because I don't want another long thread with nothing to show for it at the end of all this (lol), here's what I'm hearing:

More consistent rules and enforcement --- As it pertains to non-competitive runs, as well as the mods/tools that are allowed Change timing start FLYING stuff Inactive leaderboard moderators Remove runs with no proof

And potentially:

All Missions discussion

Am I missing anything?

I have forwarded your message.

Edit: You have been unbanned. Feel free to rejoin the server. Thanks

Didn't see the second page of this thread, my B. I'll try to respond to some stuff.

[quote]Welll there is a very big difference between those categories and LS and that is the fact that LS begins where every other category begins, at the start of the game. Those other categories are more like NG+[/quote]

Yeah, this is a great point. It's part of the reason that a total "Cities" LB the way lelreset suggests is potentially problematic. A "Badlands" leaderboard on the main boards would be unique to every other category, misc or otherwise, in that it doesn't start at "new game" -- which is again why I believe these runs are practice categories, and the Category Extensions board is a great place to house these.

[quote]People? Less than 10 people are taking it seriously. We know the category has a lot of potential but it doesn´t mean the category is important (at least at all).[/quote]

Relatively speaking, it is one of the more active categories right now.

[quote]Subjective laws were put in place for WR attempts[/quote]

Is this an issue? If your time isn't competitive, should it still be held to the same regard as WR? I don't think there's a right answer for this; there's a couple different ways you could look at it.

One would be: it doesn't matter, people who aren't sub 6 don't need to restart the game every attempt because the impact is minor and you have more time save by just playing better.

Two would be: Yes, hold it to the same regard. Which is totally fair -- implementing the same standards for everyone. The argument against this would probably be that it raises the barrier to entry in a way that is, perhaps, unnecessary for new or learning players.

[quote]Just because i'm not playing categories that are significant to you doesn't mean i'm not active.[/quote]

Unfortunately you removed all your runs so there's no record of this claim, unless you want me to hunt down your YouTube channel, which is a bunch of random letters; so there's no real way to search for the runs themselves, either.

Either way, it seems you miss the point. I'm not challenging your authority on San Andreas; whatever authority either of us harbor is irrelevant. I'm making the statement that you seem to pop up from nowhere, see a few things that irk you, and then delete your runs and post a tirade without having a real conversation about any of this before deciding that doing something dramatic is necessary. It's not a matter of authority.

[quote]The difference between me and you also is I don't call out people for being assholes unless they call me out, because I am one myself, so you shouldn't either.[/quote]

This does not put you, or your arguments, above criticism. If you haven't noticed, I also do not put myself above criticism; so this just seems like projection. How I carry myself isn't the topic, so I'm not sure why you're going on about it.

[quote]It took me a week to find out Anti was cheating in SA while it took you a year. I suggested for the runners of 3/VC to check his game speed. Nothing happened apart from the same idiots laughing. Now a year later this is somehow BIG NEWS.[/quote]

I have already said that we made a mistake regarding this. Anti was friends with many in the community and we didn't anticipate him to do something so pointless as to cheat. He streamed his runs and spent loads of time playing -- why ruin that by making it all illegitimate? Your skepticism was warranted, and we were too trusting. The issue now is if we learn from it, or not.

[quote]So give me a reason to speedrun when i'm potentially competing to someone who is cheating and nobody is doing anything about it, and it is too late now.[/quote]

If you find something on FLYING, please let me or someone else know, because we've been unable to find evidence of cheating. If you want to do something about it, help us investigate. I know at least one drive of his (end of Robbing Uncle Sam) has been timed vs. Anti's cheated run, as well as your own run, and nothing was suspect.

Which leaves the possible conclusion of: he is cheating in ways that aren't visibly detectable. If you believe we need to put more pressure on him to provide proof, I believe that's fair; hence your frustration that nothing is being done. This is something we can consider pursuing, if it'll put these claims, and everyone's suspicions, to rest.

If he doesn't want to cooperate, we'd probably just have to remove his times. Right? In the interest of fairness and transparency, it seems like the thing to do.

[quote]A category's current activity should have no bearing on where it exists is your personal opinion and also the criteria is whatever KZ_FREW says, this is the criteria - do not push your personal opinions on other people.[/quote]

I explained this in the above post, but the board follows a pretty obvious philosophy that isn't my personal opinion; it was established as such before I got here. When adding a category to the main or misc boards, you would generally want the philosophy behind the organization to be retained. So, when we consider adding a category, the first thing we should consider is: does it make sense?

If you want to argue that the philosophy itself should be changed, that's perfectly legitimate, but to make the claim that it's my personal opinion and that I am shutting out other opinions is total conjecture. I don't think it's unreasonable to state that, as the boards are right now, adding LS is inconsistent to everything else.

[quote]Using words such as "objectively" "obviously" "criteria" does not save you from criticism, unfortunately. Good try though.[/quote]

I have never stated, or insinuated, that I am above criticism.

[quote]I do not see why people who voted for this are having a problem with me removing my own?[/quote]

Because you are a good player and it is a shame.

[quote]While you're at it, remove runs that have no videos on them, there are a lot.[/quote]

This is fair; the unfortunate thing is a lot of this can't be helped. Super old runs may not have videos anymore, even though they had working videos at the time and as such were verified. Should we remove them now that the video is no longer accessible?

[quote]And that it’s visability would be worse if it were on this page under misc. is laughable. Any% dupeless has double the runs it had before being moved (and it would have a lot more if dupeless old runs from any% were moved over). I would bet money on LS% surpassing any% in number of runs if it were on this leaderboard.[/quote]

Under misc, you mean? Because it doesn't belong as a main category, and there has only been 1 run accepted to the misc leaderboard within the last few months.

The reason it doesn't belong as a main category is because every main category should involve, on some level, completion of the game. Misc categories are reserved for collectibles, and these misc categories exist on the "main boards" because they involve (a) non-arbitrary completion of an ingame objective (i.e. "collect all of X" as opposed to something like "shoot the moon 3 times"), and (b) have unique routes and rationale (i.e. how you reason within the game during the category).

Honestly, 69/70 USJs arguably belongs on CE, it only skirts by because you have to actually attempt the 70th USJ -- putting it in some sort of gray area.

Also, if LS actually had some unique routing or rationale to it within the category on its own, that would give it some legitimacy as a main or (more likely) misc category. But it doesn't. LS is contained within every main category.

Unique routing and rationale is also why NMG was moved to the main boards. It involves a completion of the game and has a unique route. This is also why things like "Cutscene%" or "100% NMG" is contained on CE. These categories are largely inconsequential in comparison to categories that are already on these boards. In lieu of this, All Missions has been called arbitrary but seems totally fair to me -- all missions with a global radar icon is pretty straightforward. The idea of an "All Assets" was once tossed around, but didn't really gain any traction so the idea was not further explored.

Leaving it on CE doesn't really grant it any injustice, either. If someone doesn't want to run a category because it's on CE and not the main boards is their own problem, I think. Practice categories and "fun" categories are very much a way of making speedrunning your own thing; it's different for everybody and we try to accommodate these unique approaches to speedrunning as best as we can (hence ILs which I don't particularly care for personally, as well as Category Extensions) so that people can fool around to their heart's content.

This is also why MDvMMw/CE has seen a lot of activity. It's not on the main boards, but that's not stopping anybody. People are running this category and having fun with it.

[quote]"people in power" (I dislike using this phrase but here it's technically correct) have been mostly the same people over the years and mostly from the same circle.[/quote]

Everyone modding Vice City is relatively new to the scene. Hoxi is also a mod here, and he's "newish" -- it is no surprise that the core community has remained the same over the years, but we're obviously not afraid to take on new faces for positions of power.

[quote]You personally see no reason, so just ignore the clear demand for it? Don't even bother taking it to a vote?[/quote]

The discussion has always been "add LS%", but no one really speaks on why it needs to be moved from Category Extensions into the main boards. You bring up T%, and that's a fair point, but then you just attack my motives and insinuate I'm not open for discussion? I don't get it.

[quote]It's clear that the real reason is "More runs to verify? No thanks, just keep the dead categories on there."[/quote]

Between myself, hoxi and mhmd, we have verified 436 IL runs over the last week. Volume of runs is clearly not a problem.

More to LS% -- you bring up that it has a lot of runs on GTACE. Clearly, its growth is not stagnated by it existing over there. I'm willing to be wrong on this, but I doubt there is an audience out there that thinks "Man, I'd love to run San Andreas, but LS% isn't on the main boards, so I don't want to bother" -- its existence on one page or another doesn't really have a bearing on the people that run it. Plus, if it's on the main boards, it'll be tucked under Misc anyway, so the visibility of the category will be equally poor -- if not worse.

[quote]No thanks, just keep the dead categories on there.[/quote]

A category's current activity should have no bearing on where it exists. All Missions, NMG and 100% all fit the criteria of the main boards, so they will stay.

You are asking for a monthly popularity contest.

LS%: This is a practice category, and even then, it doesn't have much merit as a practice category because it's literally the first part of the run. Every full game run involves completing LS, thus making it redundant. None of the main categories have partial completion of the game, and even the misc categories have an objective that is unique to that category only (All Tags/Oysters/Collectibles/etc have unique routes). There are no LS% strats, except not storing a cop bike, I guess. Given all of the above, I see no reason to move it to these boards.

Anti: You are right, we should have been more suspect. The good news is, there were skeptical minds (such as yourself, as well as Powdinet) that unraveled the whole mystery. It only took so long because Anti contributed much to this scene; with new strats and testing and timing stuff. Obviously, he cheated, and he is now permabanned from the boards. What more do you want?

MHMD_FVC: Obviously, I'm not happy with his removal of the ILs. After he did this, he immediately demoted himself and made both Anti_ and I supermod. In the wake of this, he has probably done more legwork to restore the ILs than I have (I think hoxi has both of us beat, though). As a verifier, he can't do anything pertaining to the boards, or even the runs themselves. He can only approve or reject runs, which is something he has done plenty of -- so credit where it's due. I was sorely disappointed with him removing the ILs, and I still am, but I value his efforts to make it right. Call it a redemption arc.

You haven't even been active here in quite some time but you make this big comeback just to fire off this loud cannon of a post and storm out. Aren't you doing exactly what you roast us for: not having an honest discussion about it? How do you expect us, or anything really, to change, if you don't have a talk about it? Deleting your runs and posting a rant is not a discussion. The immaturity of this is pretty self-evident, and no, it's not because of your age or because you contradict yourself (obviously, you do, but that's not my point) -- it's because you think this is a reasonable approach to some pretty small problems. Blowing it completely out of proportion and making it about yourself, more than anything else.

Baseless claims are also not arguments. Saying that "Joshimuz will come back like nothing happened" is aimless hate, something you show a lot of, especially since I've spoken with Josh and he told me he wants absolutely nothing to do with moderating anymore.

@MToms127 -- "preach brother" doesn't really give me anything. What exactly is the problem with how this ship is being run?