Hey,

So I know that this idea has been floated around by many Melody of Memory runners now, and we've discussed it many times, but there really should be a fairer split in terms of console boards.

If anyone has a better suggestion I'd be keen to hear it but basically there should be:

1. PC (would really benefit from a load remover too)
2. PS5/XboxSeries(S/X)
3. PS4 (Pro)/XboxOne(X)
4. Switch

It is well-known that Switch has the slowest load times, and that PS5 is much faster than PS4 Pro, so it makes sense to separate those out. I know a few players who only have MoM on switch and would like to speedrun it, so lets encourage them to do so with a fairer board.

I'm not a runner of this game myself, but I believe this is not really necessary since we already have the console variable. Runners from whichever console can just click on filters -> console and choose the one they are interested on. Currently there's no way of comparing PS5 to Xbox Series or PS4 to Xbox One, but if they really are similar enough mods can edit the console variable to group them together. I think it also helps the leaderboards to stay as they are right now, because it shows how many runs there really are of the game while giving you the option to look at console subcategories if you want to using the filters, instead of having multiple categories which are essentially the same with a few runners on each.

Thank you for mentioning this. I don't know where the discussion was held, but it didn't really happen in the KH Speedrunning discord (At least recently) so I wasn't aware of this personally, so it's good that this is finally discussed in a more open manner and having this discussion in a more open space would probably help speed up the process of this leaderboard change. The split sounds fine overall if more data can be provided on the different consoles. An SSD installed can change the speed drastically, same with PS4 over PS4 Pro, so having some rough data on how big the differences in general are would help with this process. And I don't know how XBox affects this game, though XBox can be handled loosely in comparision to the other consoles for now as that one is rather rare for KH Speedruns. The comparisions don't have to be full runs, just a few sections which can then be used to estimate the difference between the categories you mentioned. One issue with a potential split, as Bublo implied from what I can tell, is that there aren't many runners for this game. Splitting the consoles further would make the boards look more empty than the already do, but this is a rather small argument.

A load remover has been developed in the past, but if I remember correctly it had some issues which is why it was never introduced in the first place.

Hey,

Yeah, I think its been mentioned a few times in the KH speedrunning discord, but that was probably a while ago. But yeah, thought this would be a better/more stable way to get some changes in.

I agree about the data (I don’t have access to any xbox or ps4 right now and I don’t have MoM on Switch unfortunately) so I ran a short Proud Any% route up until finishing the Agrabah songs which includes 10 songs played with the intention of getting All Excellent/Full Chain here I also turned off guests as would be utilised in an optimised run. Here are the times:

PC: 29m14s PS5: 30m04s PS4 Pro: 31m04s

Clearly, PC is fastest (depending on hardware), then PS5, with PS4 Pro the slowest. At about 1/6 of the any% run (usually 63 songs), the 1 minute difference between PS5 and PS4 Pro becomes at least a 6 minute difference of the full any% just because of loads.

If the argument is about empty boards, I would suggest that it’s because people don’t want to spend 7-8 hours for the All Stars or All Songs category, nor the 25+ hours for the platinum run, so shorter categories like the All Co-op Songs (Solo and coop options) which will only take around an hour might encourage runners to attempt them.

In terms of tidying up boards, I think having the 4 console categories for at least the Any% runs would be beneficial. I can’t see anyone running All Songs or All Stars on Switch, or even the plat run on anything but playstation. And yeah, last I saw the load remover was a little buggy.

I understand the hesitancy to split the boards at the risk of empty boards, but this is what the Melody of Memory speedrunning community wants. As a runner of all these categories (since release and to this day), and someone who has discussed this with runners in discord and in twitch chat, I can confidently say this would be welcomed by the MoM speedrunning community, as small as we might be compared to the bigger titles.

Definitely surprised to see that PC is the fastest. For most other KH games PC is actually one of the slower categories, that's quite interesting. Again for PC it would make the most sense if we would eventually go with a load remover. Not sure who would want to tackle that endeavor, but that would create the best competetive environment for it. The empty boards arguments mostly goes towards splitting the consoles, not necessarily to different categories as a whole. A common thing you see in speedrunning is people doing a run in any given category just to snag a free WR which by itself isn't bad, everyone can use their own ruleset, but is also rather silly in my eyes, that's why I'm a little hesitant on just splitting consoles, especially in a small game like this. Seeing the difference in loads definitely speaks for a split however.

The split you suggested

1. PC
2. PS5 / XboxSeries (S / X)
3. PS4 (Pro) / XboxOne (X)
4. Switch sounds like it would make the most sense. I checked the difference between PS4 Pro and Switch as well and it looked to me like it's about the same as PS4 Pro and Switch. The only thing I'm not 100% sure on is how PS4 / PS4 Pro should be grouped up as the regular PS4 might be just as slow as the Switch, it'd be great if you could find someone who could record a sample for that, too. Just the tutorial (First 5 min of the run) would already be enough in this case as that already gives a good suggestion of the overall load times of the game.

For the bigger categories a split can be considered once there is more competition I'd say. As you mentioned, there will probably not be many runs of All Stars / All Songs performed on a Switch and even less Plat runs on anything that isn't a PS4 / PS5.

What would help in the future is having those kind of discussions in the speedrunning discord as a whole. If anything it would be great if the result of a discussion like that could be posted there or, like in this case, in the Forum as that is what the Forum is for. I appreciate you bringing this topic into the Forums in the first place!

Hey,

That is interesting that PC is faster for MoM, but not other KH games! And I see what you mean about the empty leaderboards, but yes I agree, the load times speak for themselves.

I managed to grab a PS4 and did a run (up to Agrabah again, just for consistency) and the times were:

PS4 Pro: 31m04s PS4: 31m31s

The load time difference is slight, but it is there. A few people have indicated that they may be able to get the data for Switch within the next couple of weeks so we'll keep an eye out for that.

A big issue with discord is that conversations can get buried easily, whereas forums are much easier to refer to and can be more focussed. In fact, this exact topic of console splits has definitely been brought up in there a couple of times with no resolution. I appreciate your responses and can let you know that these potential changes have already had an encouraging effect on the community.