Currently for ball marker runs you can move the ball marker before actually starting the run, which I personally think shouldn't be allowed. But since it's allowed, should we assume that the ball marker can be moved before other runs, like for example i dont know, moving it to a corner of spawn to jump onto and get out of spawn faster? If we can move ball marker to get a faster time, can we do it with other markers like frozen too? I think the answer is a definite no, but what really is the difference between the two?

Another pre-run setup is collecting the wrench before starting a run. The current quagmire marker WR collects the wrench AND removes the grate before the run has even started, which, assuming 2nd place is on the same pace, gives the pre-run setup a 15 second advantage. In my opinion collecting the wrench and removing the grate are key moments in the run, so this shouldn't be allowed. What if bubble bath marker had every pipe fixed before the run started, or if time rune marker had every rune collected, or if zen marker had every hint collected; they're all effectively doing the same thing, interacting with objects necessary for the marker before starting the run.

In the case of markers like big orange marker and dark markery, where you have to collect other markers first, I can see why a pre-run setup is allowed, since you're only going for 1 marker, not 2. Also for quartz marker, collecting the pickaxe is a permanent thing and it really isn't a major part of getting that marker (and 99.9% of players who decided to speedrun this game probably got the pickaxe before that), so missing that out is fair too.

But where do you draw the line between which pre-run setups are allowed and which aren't? Answer: you don't. Either all of them are allowed or none of them are, otherwise this game would be an inconsistent pain in the ass to run. And, if all of them were allowed, the speedruns would get boring quick, nothing going on, just walking from point A to point B. We have enough markers like that already.

sorry this is so long

Hey! This is the wr holder of quagmire marker. When my run got verified, I thought "Is this allowed?" but since it was verified, I brushed it off. I am gonna reject the run tho rn.

For the ball marker situation, I am gonna try to contact other mods to see what they think.

In a thread for the quartz marker, the mods agreed to have the pickaxe already collected before starting the run. So I did that, I submitted a run but it got rejected. So I had to make a new acc to do a run on it, which is my current quartz wr.

Also big orange marker isn't a multistep marker, as far as I know. Dark markery is tho.

@whocks Thanks for noticing this. I do indeed agree that there should be clear rules about pre-setups that everybody has to follow with no exceptions, although I think there's a lot of markers where pre-setup rules could be very controversial. For example, in my opinion ball marker pre-setup rules weren't really made yet, except for like one or two occurrences like waiting until the ball rolls towards you and touches you, making you able to get a 0 second run. I think there should be a conference with not just moderators but also players discussing rules about specific markers. I think that would be a good thing to eliminate inconsistencies for now.

Also yeah this is also very long