first

first

supermod here:

it's also worth mentioning some older patches of the game are missing several quality of life changes (lots of movement quirks - as an example, wallbounces used to be way less lenient and cornerboosting out of dashes used to be 100% impossible) but there's also accidental game breaking bugs that were live for literal hours before being patched out. as an example, a change to how dash buffering worked led to an exploit that allowed for gaining practically infinite speed on flat ground, which is as broken as it sounds. if all patches were allowed, running on these "broken" patches would probably be the meta, and we'd have to run the game without said quality of life changes. the optimal patch would likely be the original day 1 patch of celeste, since it allows you to skip all of the lake checkpoint... but has forced screenshake, 0 quality of life improvements, (i believe?) no milliseconds on ingame timer, no demodashing (!!) and just sucks to play.

as well, the route is virtually unchanged from patch to patch. many people have mentioned the menu storage "pause warp" technique, which mostly only saved time because it now a viable strategy for 5B to be played in runs, when the meta at the time was 5A. the trick was banned, and a different skip was found to make 5B viable, so ultimately the trick only saves about 10 seconds (the trick could do other things, like skip the prologue cutscene... but ironically that's been patched in as well). so, tl;dr, making people jump through the hoops of downpatching to play on a version that follows exactly the same route but is only slightly faster just isn't worth it.

we actually have a leaderboard for no patch requirement, which you will notice is unbelievably dead https://www.speedrun.com/celeste_category_extensions#Any_No_Patch_Restriction - the record is a time that is two years old that is 3 minutes slower than the current patch record, despite being a strictly faster patch. and again, this run doesn't even use the theoretically optimal patch!

i guess for a condensed list, we play on current patch because:

1: most accessible patch for all runners (this is huge - the ease of running the game is why it's so popular) 2: quality of life improvements, celeste 1.0.0.0 is nearly a completely different game 3: the timesave simply isn't worth a switch - the route is the same 4: since the timesave is minimal, why bother grinding no patch requirement (the less competitive category) for a good time in any% (current patch) instead? this was the main flaw with why a no patch requirement category was so unpopular.

as far as what factorio should do: admittedly i know very little about the speedrunning meta of the game (but i have casually launched a few rockets myself :d), but i suppose it's a matter of deciding whether its worth it for your game or not. is the route changed in a significant way - significant enough to warrant the trouble of downpatching? would splitting runs between patches split the competition of the leaderboard too heavily? is the game less fun/"painful" to run on potentially janky patches? and etc.

hm, it has been a while now and the run still isnt showing. i tried adding a time with loads to see if that was doing anything, but still isnt appearing. it still shows up if you check your profile or filter by character on the leaderboard. might want to ask a site mod/admin about it? i'll look more at it in a few hours when i am not busy.

edit: seems to be fixed.

just wait a little bit, it can take a few hours for speedrun.com to update. happened to me plenty of times.

edit: just for further proof it should be fine, here is a link to the run. https://www.speedrun.com/run/y67nee0m

also shows up on your profile

oh boy, i probably won't bother then. thanks for letting me know to both of you

i've been doing attempts of the new category all character unlocks, and haven't gotten the rogue unlock on both of the runs i've "finished" (one run missed chicken because no last wish, the other was a 7:03 RTA that ended up with every character except rogue).

all the top 3 runs get the unlock with no problem, and as far as i can tell i've done nothing different and the unlock method isn't working even though i'm killing both throne 1 and throne 2. this category is already frustrating enough (1/9 chance for screwdriver in 1-1, last wish rng, chests exploding gold car on 3-1, portals destroying rad canisters while trying to spawn horror, having to reset save every other run, along with all the other wonderful RNG in your normal throne runs) and i'm honestly confused why the unlock isn't working for me. any ideas, i was reading a bit it's a known bug for the rogue unlock to not occur occasionally...

categories definitely look much better. we can figure how to handle characters later (i may tinker with it, but have never really dove into editing leaderboards on speedrun.com).

and yeah, i figured out about ultime decathlon from a bit of asking around some friends since i was pretty confused why the game had such a huge french runnerbase, lol. a channel dedicated to speedrunning in that throne discord would be neat, or just an entirely different discord.

you could view character specific leaderboards by clicking the "filter" button at the top of the leaderboards and selecting one of the different characters under "P1 Character". while this would cut down on the clutter of having a bunch of different runs by the same person on the same category (like in the RE4 leaderboard), the filter button isnt obvious to a lot of people meaning runs as different characters wouldn't be very visible unless someone was really looking for it. besides that i feel like solution 1 is best, the 2nd one can get really cluttered with people having 12 entries on the same leaderboard, yet not being ranked...

also, can i get a link to this discord? wasn't aware a NT speedrunning discord existed, i was actually going to ask if someone could create one lol

seems we were both added as mods! personally i have really awful internet when i am at home between college semesters (i get around .5 down and .3 up on good days, living in rural america is epic) meaning i can't really submit runs until i am back in college in late august. still, i'll be lurking around to verify runs or manage the leaderboards in whatever way (i can deal with watching videos on this internet if they are short, which most runs of this game will be). we seemed to only have like 1 dude verifying runs for a while, so i'm glad to get some more active mods.

NTT isn't allowed for any category besides co-op categories as it's a modded version of the game. the changes are minor (level generation is different, i believe barrels won't change the spawn position of the portal in desert or jungle) but they still matter. as for co-op categories, i don't think there'd be any issues with using widescreen.

unfortunately i'd think 4 players would be a bit more of a liability, really wouldnt be that much faster than 2 players. ammo issues definitely come to mind, and through the course of the run you're only going to be able to gear like 2 of the players at best (in a normal 1/2 char run, you'd generally be seeing around 20 weapons total (even considering big chests and random drops from enemies) and great rng would be having like 3 or 4 of those weapons be good lol).

as far as characters that seem good to me... steroids for obvious reasons, plant is really solid in co-op because of throne butt snare demolishing throne and palace dogs, and movement speed is nice for clearing out far away rooms and activating throne fight earlier.

chicken actually sounds sick because you could throw basically any weapon to do a decent amount of damage (doesn't need to be geared, scales by level) and a thrown weapon could be placed on the ground next to the throne to allow a player to spam swap it with another weapon (picking up a weapon repeatedly will reset its firing cooldown, letting you fire it as fast as you can pick up or put down the weapon. typically done on big dog but chicken would let you move a weapon to let you do it on throne). also i guess you could sacrifice chicken to sit on the throne while it explodes instead of taking boilies, which saves around 3 seconds lolz

besides that uhhhh... robot might be ok to potentially get you better weapon drops? YV pop popping is definitely solid. every other character is just about awful for speedrunning. i'll probably try some 4 player runs with my friends when my internet is less spotty, think it'd be a fun misc category.

hey, glad you're taking interest in the game!

we unfortunately lack a lot of documentation on tricks in this game so until we finally get around to making some tutorials the best way to learn is just ask. join the dustforce discord (https://discord.gg/wgECUrn) if you havent already, tons of people there are happy to answer any question

can i get my submission removed? something came up

no worries, i am in school as well so i have more to worry about than runs getting verified too :d

so my friend (wayward524) and i did some runs of co-op and got a 3:46. this is a WR time, but we used plant/roids and are now realizing the category is called 1char - co-op, which is giving the impression both players can only use the same character, but also isnt stated in the rules anywhere.

this feels a little arbitrary (i would think this category should be "beat the game co-op as fast as possible") and limits some creativity in routing this out, but was wondering if there was a reason for this. just so it doesnt sound like we want the category changed so we have WR we're doing attempts with double roids now.

edit: set WR with double roids, but would still like clarification because plant/roids can definitely compete and the limitations seems unclear

besides obviously taking it slow in risky spots, pick up a safety mutation like rhino or spirit (raw hp is usually better imo)

also big chests on 3-3 give you a chance for miniguns, autobows, supercrosses, and hyper rifles; all very capable of carrying you to the palace fairly easily (splinter pistol autoshotty and bouncers are decent as well). obviously this isnt guaranteed, but what is in this game

gonna +1 what backsapper recommended, i use it for dustforce and it has lasted me well over 2 years in a pretty input-intensive game and only costed 15 bucks... no ghosting issues, never dropped inputs or anything, dont know if you can find anything better for the price