Good evening OutRun Arcade runners & mods,
We have a big problem on our hands! I was playing Goal B and all my 5 stages (except 1) were under the minute mark but I was still getting a time of 5'10"710 and, because I was just done playing the PC Engine version where the clock is also broken, that's when I realized the OutRun Arcade timer is also completely random and broken!
Here are the splits for everyone's Goal B so you can better understand:
MasterSystemMarceau's GOAL B SPLITS: Stage 1: 59s250ms Stage 2: 59s210ms Stage 3: 58s280ms Stage 4: 1m01s250ms Stage 5: 52s560ms SUBTOTAL: 4m49s + 1550ms REAL TOTAL: 4m 50s 550ms TOTAL SHOWN ON SCREEN: 5m 10s 710ms (20s 160ms added by the game!)
turbogilman's GOAL B SPLITS: Stage 1: 58s250ms Stage 2: 1m00s260ms Stage 3: 58s280ms Stage 4: 1m05s280ms Stage 5: 51s030ms SUBTOTAL: 4m 52s + 1100ms REAL TOTAL: 4m 53s 100ms TOTAL SHOWN ON SCREEN: 5m 12s 150ms (19s 250ms added by the game!)
GemmaEuphoria's GOAL B SPLITS: Stage 1: 58s210ms Stage 2: 57s250ms Stage 3: 55s250ms Stage 4: 58s250ms Stage 5: 49s620ms SUBTOTAL: 4m 37s + 1580ms REAL TOTAL: 4m 38s 580ms TOTAL SHOWN ON SCREEN: 4m 54s 370ms (15s 790ms added by the game!)
kickasspancakes's GOAL B SPLITS: Stage 1: 59s250ms Stage 2: 56s260ms Stage 3: 56s280ms Stage 4: 57s230ms Stage 5: 48s950ms SUBTOTAL: 4m 36s + 1970ms REAL TOTAL: 4m 37s 970ms TOTAL SHOWN ON SCREEN: 4m 53s 890ms (15s 920ms added by the game!)
So, as you can see, the broken timer can add anywhere between 15s and 20s to anyone's run.
I can't believe that in -36 YEARS- nobody noticed this before!!! I know it's a lot of work but I believe everyone's run should be recounted if we want it to be fair. I also believe btrim is MIA and if anyone would like me to help, I'd be happy to join the mod team and do the recount for everyone.
Note that the PC Engine and Arcade versions of OutRun have a broken timer but the Genesis, Master System and Game Gear version do NOT.
Let me know what you guys think!
Marceau.
This seems to be the case ,I noticed this as well when master system marceau brought to my attention. I did the math of a few runners the the final times make no sense. The math is incorrect. I'm going to be running this game soon myself and feel the rules need to be changed to adding the 5 stages up your self and then checked the mods. Otherwise these times make no sense. This is not a issue with the Genesis verison cause, we'll I guess it understands basic math lol. But yes 100% this needs to be fix. All runners times should be adjusted and rules for the times changed in my option. As I think marceau should be a Mod for discovering this. [Never hurts to have another mod] Correct math doesn't lie, but outrun arcade does lol
Legit dude this is a big discovery as you point out the added times make zero sense! 15 to 20 seconds added, that is far to random and unfair when basic math can be used here to see the real times. As for Btrim yes I agree ,he seems to be inactive on the site and another mod is a good idea. Huge props to Takojaki for being a awesome and prompt Mod btw. That guy rocks. But yes this def def def needs to be fixed. My incentive to start playing now knowing my final time is going to be random and incorrect bothers me. As this really is simple math. Great discovery. I believe no one noticed back in the day because ppl played for high scores not speed in those days. As for recent years just didn't get noticed. Great observation MSM
It's the same broken timer they used in Super Hang-On, which is a shame. You can find some information about the broken timer here, for example. Maybe there's another explanation somewhere else. http://www.ukvac.com/forum/fixing-bugs-in-out-runs-timing-system_topic338675.html
Edit: more info: http://reassembler.blogspot.com/2014/04/time-keeping.html
But I'm still not sure why the final time is what it is. It seems to be pretty close to real time.
So, what should we do? We could simply add another column for the sum of split times and order the leaderboard by that?
I could add also add another mod if someone volunteers to re-time the existing runs😅
I dont wanna to re time everthing lol. Thats not a bad idea. I still cant believe this games clock is broken. Lol that's so crazy to me.
Yeah I think we could use the regular "Time" column as split times and use that as main reference for the medals. I'd be happy to volunteer to recount everyone's splits.
Later on, we can check if there's a better way or we should make a separate leaderboard with the "Enhanced ROM" the guy is talking about in the article you shared ( http://www.ukvac.com/forum/fixing-bugs-in-out-runs-timing-system_topic338675.html ), although I'd like to know where that ROM can be found first.
Sorry to be dumb. But is this a different timing bug, or just the same old Out Run arcade timing bug that has been known about for some time. That bug that was fixed in Cannonball ( http://reassembler.blogspot.com/2014/04/time-keeping.html ) and the Nintendo 3DS and Switch version of Out Run by M2.
I must be honest, I never really understood the bug except that it added time to the run, but I figured we're all in the same boat so maybe it doesn't matter. IDK.
Definitely interested to know more.
It's probably what has already been discovered but since I hadn't found anyone talking about it (even after a Google search) and saw everyone using the broken timer, I figured I was the first one to figure it out. It adds time to the run yes, but it's random between 15 to 20 seconds. The split times also seem inaccurate therefore I'm not sure if there's a solution to our problem, might as well keep it the way it is, Idk. It's good to know the 3DS and Switch versions are bug-free and thank you for letting me know about Cannonball, I didn't know that existed. I just tried it and it's FANTASTIC! Maybe we should have a separate leaderboard for that bug-free version?
Actually I just tested the CannonBall version ( ) and... THEY DIDN'T FIX THE TIMER IN THAT VERSION EITHER... smh Here are my splits in that version: GOAL A SPLITS: Stage 1: 59s 650ms Stage 2: 1m 06s 590ms Stage 3: 1m 00s 620ms Stage 4: 1m 06s 780ms Stage 5: 53s 120ms SPLIT TOTAL: 5m 06s 760ms TOTAL SHOWN AT END SCREEN: 5m 25s 530ms
I thought it was an option you could turn on and off. Maybe I'm wrong though, it's been a while since I tried it.
So messd up. This truly makes the Genesis verison the best veriso . Until they can release a version that isn't messed up. Also the one runner who has 1st in goal A is 100% using tool assist.
So, in the end is it the same bug as in Super Hang-On Arcade? I always felt like the timer was a bit random with stage 1
Ya its really strange. I just wish I had access to the meme rom. As the yakuza 0 verison has lots of traffic
The timer in the modern re-releases seem to be slightly slower compared to the Arcade/Saturn version. I feel it would be kind of pointless to make a new leaderboard for a slower version with just a couple runs, though.
The Switch version seems the most fun, at least for casual play.
The timer bug might not be exactly the same as in SHO but it is just as annoying.
Gemma Euphoria is correct by the way, in the enhancements menu, there's an option called "Timing Fixes" in CannonBall! It's OFF by default!
Yes, this is not a new discovery. The numerous bugs in the Out Run code have been known for quite some time.
I first reported the stage timer bug to Chris White back in August 2012, when he was working on the Cannonball project.
The short explanation is as follows:
The Stage 5 lap time is correct, but the individual times for Stages 1 through 4 are not. The whole seconds are accurate, but the hundredths of a second are mistakenly pulled from the wrong memory location. They match the current stage 100% of the time, instead of the stage that was just completed. If you are driving at (or near) top speed when passing a checkpoint, have you noticed that the displayed stage time is almost always within the xx.15 to xx.25 range?
I provide a more detailed demonstration in one of my Twin Galaxies submissions from 3 years ago:
That's a nice demonstration, thanks for bringing it up!
I've definitely seen the thread before but somehow forgot about it.
