I am proposing to ban Emma zips. As it sits right now, Emma zips require a certain operating system (mainly Windows 10) and they do NOT work on Windows 11. This can pose a major problem going forward should the zip not work on future versions of Windows. Before records become impossible without the zip, I am looking to see your thoughts on a ban of the glitch all together.

Should it become workable on Windows 11 (whether it's via an update, patch, etc.), then this is a non-discussion. But I find myself baffled that we have to run an entirely different operating system just to perform a glitch.

I get having to run different versions of a game, different patch, modify an option or something. An OS change seems like a bit much IMO.

Any existing runs would be grandfathered in.

Please note: This is NOT a formal vote. This is just a general discussion for now.

Let me know your thoughts on this.

Current thoughts based on posts:

OK with either/or: 3 No: 2

It's a tough one. I agree that changing your OS for an advantage is a bit much. I guess I have some bias as a w11 user so I can't perform Emma zips, but at my current skill level, I don't fully understand its importance when going for competitive times. At the same time it only becomes an issue when going for top times. A 10-15s difference won't mean that much to me (although that might change in the future lol), so I'm okay with either decision personally. Banning it however, might be better for how the future pans out.

Every day, we stray further from the sub 1 hour...

Jokes aside, I agree that it's tricky. While I understand that changing OS just to be able to perform a specific trick in a game is different to, say, using a different game version, some might not see it as that different. There are plenty of games (not any MGS ones, as far as I'm aware) that benefit from faster loads on specific S/N consoles (late vs early series PS2, for example), which requires runners to obtain fairly niche hardware to get top times. Personally, I wouldn't like to see things go the way of needing a second PC running Win10 just to remain competitive.

I wouldn't be against a ban if there is really no convenient alternative that preserves zips.

In my view, I don't think a ban on Emma zips is needed or warranted.

To name several issues in no particular order:

1. A ban has zero effect on non-competitive times
2. A ban artificially hamstrings those wishing to aim for competitive times in the future
3. A ban negatively affects the historical significance of the run and the glitch's use to date
4. A ban arguably makes competitive run attempts less engaging for viewers

Although using a specific OS to execute the glitch may be a pain in the ass, I see virtually no difference between OS idiosyncrasies and console differences.

If there are any significant race events/tournaments in the future, I think a ban on Emma zips for those particular events can be discussed ad-hoc for fairness and inclusion purposes.

tl;dr: Those that want to use it should. Those that don't shouldn't. Speedrun = Go Fast.

Although I didn't run MGS2 for a long time (way before Emma zip was found) I might give m'y opinion about this. "Removing" a glitch on purpose for future runs sounds weird to me as a speedrunner. I'd understand even if it was a major gamebreaker like Boba Skip on MGS1 (in this case the leaderboards would be split between Any% Emma zip & Any% No Emma zip for exemple). But here it's just a 15seconds timesave at most. It would be like banning Transformer Skip on MGS1 because it wouldn't work on Win11. I don't think removing a glitch as a whole, even this tiny, is a good idea. And i'm pretty sure someday a way to perform it on Win11 will be found. I'd say don't do it, it's not a huge thing, or run on a Win10 PC/laptop.

Don’t like the trick. Yeah I got 1:01 because of it but meh - that result took luck more than skill and I don’t like luck really in speedruns. If we remove it, cool. If not, I’ll probably still do runs just without it until I’m good enough to get a new PB without the zip. That’s my 5 cents really

Not bothered as i dont use them anyway cause i hate having them on splits, it only saves 15s at best if done perfectly and thats rare as it is but keep them or dont keep them as usual ill just run however we decide

Running on a specific OS is like running on a specific console imo. Pro-keeping it regardless of how annoying they are.

I would love them to be banned because I hate them, but I agree that running a specific OS is no different to running a specific console. If they were to be banned then the leaderboard becomes unfair for new runners. We also face the problem that we have no idea why they don't work in Win11 so we don't know if in the next version of Windows if they will work again. So if we banned now would we just keep banning/unbanning based on what the current version of Windows does? If it happens that all future versions of windows they do not work then maybe glitchless will become a more competitive category.

All this being said, if it comes down to a vote i'm voting to ban because fuck the zips

Personally, I feel like the Emma zip should still be allowed, however the runs that use them should be put in a different category then the runs that don't use them, that way Windows 10 and 11 users still can compete against each other for times but for the absolute fastest runs Windows 10 users can submit their Emma zip run onto a different category instead of submitting it as the world record or official run.

TL;DR: Don't ban Emma zip users, just move them to different category.