Last edit: 2024-11-24

This thread will serve as an informative post on the game's ruleset and will be updated as time goes on.

True Ending Definition

Similar to some other games, namely P5R, this game introduces another ending adjustment based on progression of certain objectives throughout the game. The definition of "True Ending" has always been to be the best achievable ending, therefore requiring these quests to be completed throughout the run to expand the ending sequence. The following objectives have to be completed:

• The Quest "Trial of the Dragon: Mad Mischief"
• The Quest "Trial of the Dragon: Heroes' Rest"
• The Quest "Trial of the Dragon: Bygone Legacy"
• The quest "Trial of the Dragon: Essence of Power" which is unlocked by completing the previous three Trial of the Dragon quests.
• Defeat "Destroyer Charadrius" in the Tyrant's Star in either full power or weakened form.

DLC

The idea is that, as long as DLC doesn't provide any advantage and is purely cosmetic, it should be fine to be allowed. However that entirely depends on how they're packaged and their ability to be enabled/disabled individually. Unlike prior Atlus' games, this one gives decent control at enabling and disabling individual DLC, therefore not putting us in the position where straight up disallowing every DLC is necessary.

PC Mods

We've decided to take a look at allowing certain third party software to help improve performance in the game and level the playing ground for runners, seeing as in its current state the game is plagued by incredibly poor optimization. Special K has a performance fix to alleviate that problem.

In addition to that, Vsync off forces 60 FPS menus, whereas Vsync ON gives full FPS menus according to current refresh rate. Metaphorfix allows us to bypass this, along with fixing the PC version's 8-directional analog inputs.

Unfortunately, the fix itself comes bundled with a ton of other options that we do not want to allow so we're requiring runners to follow very specific settings outside of select few that are up to runner's choice.

Metaphorfix download: https://github.com/Lyall/MetaphorFix

Version 0.8.4 settings: https://pastebin.com/B7MfePg3

Copy the settings and paste them into your Metaphorfix.ini - The following settings will require the user to input either true or false.

• [Disable Menu FPS Cap]
• [Fix Analog Movement]
• [Game Window]

The remaining options may not be changed under any circumstances.

The settings file will be updated whenever a new version releases.

Special K

Special K has a built-in performance fix for Metaphor that should help with its current optimization struggle on most systems. Runners are free to enable said fix, along with being allowed to change most other options, such as FPS limiters and more.

Metaphorfix may be added as a plug-in to Special K but no other plugins may be added or enabled.

Should there be any concerns, please make sure to reach out to us in the discord.

What's different about the ending with the 3 dragons defeated? From what I can find online the only difference is 1 extra line of dialogue from Neuras at the end which I don't think is enough to count as a 'true' ending.

The extra dialogue adds onto the ending, making it more complete. Thus, this was deemed as the 'true ending' definition for this game.

There's several dialogue changes and added lines if you complete the quest to defeat the elegy of the soul. There is extra dialogue between the king and your mom in akedemia as well as party members refering to you as the dragonslayer king multiple times in the ending proper. We've judged this to be the most complete ending

fair enough. i never saw this on my casual run and information online was sparse at best. though, i thought the dialogue between the king and the mom always happened? or is it just longer if you do elegy?

Just wanted to enjoy some speedruns after finishing this great game, but the rules around here made me raise an eyebrow or two 🤨

• what's with this weird middle ground separation of PC vs Console? Like why is "Console" a single one? Either have separate categories for each different platform (not recommended, too diluted) or have a single one and add the platform as a manually sortable column/filter (like Hades).

• why is Hard specifically the only submittable difficulty? It's not even the highest or the lowest one available, it's some weird arbitrary in-between lol. Also I'd argue the difficulty shouldn't even be its own category, heck it shouldn't even be enforced at all, as the game lets you freely (kinda) change it any time, and if there's some theoretical time-saving strat related to changing difficulty, I say let it rock.

• what's with all these weird specific rulings on framerate? Put them somewhere else, as a guide on optional optimizations maybe, not as rules

• what's up with the blanket ban on NG+ runs wtf? Now THAT is worthy of its own category, I wanted to see what craziness is involved in one lol

^all those are nitpicks that pale in comparison to the worst offender... what in the world is this "True Ending" business??

• No OPTIONAL dragons would've been the easiest time save in the world and the most sensible route to pursue for the MAIN (and only) CATEGORY of a SPEEDRUN. Again, a SPEEDRUN, not a LONGPLAY, we're not out there doing secondary quests. Just nuke that rule and rename to "NG".

• Plus I can't find any other community or "source" that considers it its own ending... it just offer a few barely noticeable extra lines of dialogue that get skipped in a run anyway lmao. There's just the bad endings, aka those that don't offer NG+, and the actual ending that does (true ending). Go check Undertale to see how it works: they have Bad/Neutral/Good, with the Neutral having several dialogue variants, but they don't warrant their own categories obviously.

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EDIT: thread locked, unfortunate, replying with an edit just to put this out there

You pretty much just explained how the rules have become as bad as they are, basically a mix of subjective "because others did it" and "because tradition".

• 1. I'd argue discovering the optimal combination of best platform + best patch version to make a run on is part of the competition (just like finding out the fastest language, the optimal in-game settings etc.). PC isn't always guaranteed to be the fastest, that's a wrong assumption to make, see cases of console-exclusive strats. And even if you disagree with the importance of that^, in reality the most important aspect is having "sane defaults". With all platforms together nothing stops a curious user from making their own minute arbitrary distinctions by clicking Filters -> choosing some platform -> Apply filters. If you do that on Hades (again, just a random example of proper, objectively handled SRC leaderboards) the list you get is even reorganized with new updated shiny 1st/2nd/3rd/4th place indicators of the platform you picked exclusively! The only time it makes sense to go hard with separations is when a game releases completely different versions under the same name (see 2008 Star Wars: The Force Unleashed old gen vs new gen vs handheld) Having "Console" as a single category is simply the worst possible option. With your logic, how is it coMpeTiTivE to pit the XSS against the straight up superior XSX hardware-wise?
• 2./3./True Ending bla bla "because community"
• 4. "If NG+ was created" THEN CREATE IT LMAO, why so antagonistic? Moderators are supposed to facilitate speedrun submissions not stifle them

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...The speedrun community needs a lot less community and a lot more speedrun.

1. Separating Console and PC is pretty standard leaderboard affair. It doesn't matter what Hades does, this isn't Hades.

The purpose of a leaderboard's function is to allow tracking of competitive categories. Having everything be in singular category format doesn't fit that purpose as PC can utilise performance features, like 120fps, which massively affects the speed of this run, which console cannot access. PC and Console versions cannot be competitive because of that.

If there is further need to divide consoles down the lines then it will be done, but right now there is no need.

2. Hard is the highest selectable difficulty for a NEW GAME playthrough. The difficulty above that is only selectable for a NG+ playthrough.

The community wanted the category to be Hard only, as it is also a category that bans NG+ files, so it is Hard only. Nothing arbitary about it, as it is the game itself that prohibits non-NG+ files from accessing the difficulty above it.

3. This one is just weird, because they are rulings for framerate, so... will be in the rules. Makes no sense to have them anywhere else.

4. The current category is a NEW GAME category, so obviously it doesn't permit usage of NG+ saves. If NG+ was created then it would be separate.

The bottom two bullet-points are you seemingly misunderstanding that categories are decided by the community and not by anything else.

The community that manages this game, it being effectively a Megaten (Megami Tensei/Persona) game in spirit, manages it to be very close to what a Megaten game leaderboard is managed as. These typically are best ending, hardest difficulty (within reason, as said, NG+ difficulties don't count) is the primary category because that is what is preferred. Really is as simple as that. The runners decided that the additional quests and adjustment of the ending, even if it is slight, were enough to warrant those being constituted as the "True Ending". What the rest of the internet's stance on the endings is (aka, not this speedrun community) is pretty much irrelevant to this.