North Yorkshire, EnglandI agree with whoever suggested monsoon only
No point, adding this would just mean some other rng barrier such as perks or spells in the first mountain would become the reset point. As a sub category sure but still feels pointless to try to alleviate randomness in a game that is entirely centered around it.
In reply to the comment about accel start being necessary for good times, there are two top 10 times (and 11th place) that dont have an accel start which kind of proves you don't need it for a 'good' time.
is the first frame kill intentionally designed? We've had a case of miner being able to do it so far but I haven't managed it with sniper yet. From what I've seen it looks like providence spawns in slightly earlier than the music beat
Do not require a completed save file
Trying to emulate gauntlet in a solo speedrun category just doesn't work because racing and speedrunning are entirely different. In a race you cannot reset, therefore having to deal with the 100% save file actually makes sense. In a speedrun you can reset as many times as you want for better seeds, so why not make that the tiniest bit easier?
The argument that save editing creates a high barrier of entry for new runners is absolute nonsense, we would not force people to do it and most new runners will likely not even consider it. What does create a high barrier of entry for new runners is requiring mods and forcing a 100% file on vanilla players.
I've attached images of what the non-unlocked items would be for an average character if I were to edit my save(s). As we all know by now the equipment change would be the main improvement as it would increase the chance of getting them equipment everyone dreams of, Eccentric Vase. The mod already requires that you only do two pillars in commencement, which is a testament to how bad the vase rng is with a 100% file. Save editing is a more natural way to improve run consistency. As for the other items I've highlighted, I think most people will agree they don't exactly scream 'fun'. There are still plenty of bad items in the pool.
I will still run this category even if a 100% file is forced, but I feel like gatekeeping it to satisfy completionist mentalities and opinions of how E8 should be played is ridiculous.
I have asked about what the reasoning was behind using an 100% save file in the Gauntlet mod, and the answer I got was because it was the easiest way to make sure that everyone in a race had the same item drops during a run. Some players seem to think that it exists because of other reasons that honestly just sound like their own personal preference when playing casually.
Getting rid of some useless unlockable items from the pool does not make the game any easier as some may suggest, it makes the runs more consistent.
There is an argument that having the 100% save file makes you deal with everything the game has to throw at you, which is partially true but this only matters during races since you can't just reset to a new seed. This is a speedrun which means that if game doesn't throw the right things at you enough then you are looking at a reset. No one is going to bother continuing to fight a Xi Construct on stage 3 with no items because they have a race they need to finish.
It's worth remembering that the other categories avoid RNG by enabling artifact of command, not by save editing. The no artifacts category is the most similar to gauntlet with the differences being that it is run on drizzle and allows lunars. That category also allows save editing, but by no means does it subvert the RNG and I believe the chance of getting a perfect bazaar is still around 1/6000+ even when locking useless lunars from the item pool.
An example of an edited save for Gauntlet would look like this:
white items from 30 to 25/24
green items from 31 to 24
red items 28 to 21
equipment from 25 to 16
I don't think this is a particularly massive change, the biggest being the equipment pool. Most characters don't get to use the full equipment pool anyway because they have to pick vase when they see it.
This run is already pretty reliant on getting void items for most characters (and more recently the droneman/empathy cores combo). Is that really what players want it to be? Void chests are so good to see in a run because they have a small item pool, having a 2/5 chance of getting one of the best items in the game when a opening an uncommon rarity void chest. So if you really think about it, turning off DLC would result in harder gameplay on average.
There are still plenty of items you don't want to see in the pool even when using an optimised save so I don't understand what the issue with save editing is. Having a slightly better chance of not needing to find void/red/boss items for a decent run is a good thing in my opinion.
I never said I want the category to be beginner friendly, I said that I think the only benefit of the mod is that it helps people (me included) get into to the run. It only takes 1 click to boot the game normally and with any saves allowed the average player will not have to worry about mods or unlocking all items/mid stage logs before they can start running.
The point made by lmeteor about effectively forcing editing on other players by allowing it doesn't really hold any weight when the only reason for wanting a 100% file so far seems to be because of wanting have the game to feel 'normal', which is completely subjective.
If top runners are worried about having worse rng than other runners then perhaps they should consider how seriously they take the run? If you are already spending hundreds of hours running the category then taking some time craft/download an optimal profile is a drop in the ocean.
Personally I find the most interesting part of running this game is the search for a near perfect seed, so anything that can be done to slightly improve that chance within the vanilla limits of the game is fair. I think save editing would benefit players who stream the game aswell, reducing the frequency of anti-climactic runs where you have a great build but fail to find a vase on stage 5.
If we want to run the game at its most difficult then why are we not forcing bands and other powerful items to be locked in the save file that people are forced to use?
If you feel it is more fun for you to have a higher chance of useless item drops then by all means run with all items unlocked, but my point still stands of why bother forcing a rule like that on others that find it less enjoyable. Its not as if save file editing eliminates all bad items from the pool, it just allows for a little more consistency.
Can we consider that not everyone has the DLC? The mod even auto turns off the DLC if it detects you don't own it so what are people without DLC supposed to do in that scenario?
The category would not become more reliant on savefiles for better items, it would become more consistent when using optimised save files. You can still get the same item drops with a 100% unlock file, it will likely just take longer. Allowing save editing would change vase from 1/25 to 1/16 chance for example. I don't think anyone is going to mind that the run doesn't feel 'normal' because they didn't get a triple squid polyp from a double mountain shrine. If people want to play with 100% unlocks be my guest, but why force it on everyone just because some people have opinions about what is considered 'normal' gameplay.
I agree that the mod is good for people getting into the run but that is pretty much it. Like I've mentioned in another thread and on the discord, the solo runs are just eclipse runs with lunars banned. None of the things that make gauntlet what it is really apply in solo runs, and this leads me onto savefile editing.
Forcing a save file makes sense for races since it unifies the drops for players across a race, but i don't see why a save should be forced for solo runs. Players who want to should be allowed to edit save files to optimise item drops, or turn DLC off. I've already seen cases of people complaining about vase rng and suggestions such as seed previewing and guaranteed vase (i think)
Regardless of what save file you have, as times improve the rng requirement will still be huge. Take the No Artifacts category for example which allows optimised save files but still requires a large amount of luck to even get a decent run started. All we are doing by forcing 100% unlocks is postponing the inevitable.
In response to the comment about new runners having to deal with save files, I'd rather new runners didn't have to deal with save files OR the mod because of the 100% save file requirement.
I'm fine with the category allowing mods but please can we not gatekeep what is essentially lunarless E8 with silly mod requirements and rules
Can we instead discuss removing the pointless requirement of using the gauntlet mod for this category? It is essentially just Eclipse 8 Lunarless (where it is modded it so you cant die??)
None of the reasons that the mod exists translate over to speedrunning, and only 3 people have done runs for the multi-run category, it would be much cleaner and more accessible to have E8 Lunarless and then have the multi-run gauntlet in category extensions.
Who's idea was it originally to add the custom stage to gauntlet? You can turn off the stage and gauntlet functions and plays exactly the same way, so why is it there in the first place? Myself and probably some others prefer to play the game as close to vanilla as possible so can we atleast consider letting people play without it?
I get that the idea behind the category is to be like 'races', but the whole point of races is that you have multiple people playing the same seed, which in the case of speedrunning we do not.
it is not required, just turn it off in the mod profile settings if you dont want it
seers saves alot more than 10s because it means you can do pod strats
if by trivialize you mean make the run even more rng dependent then yes
i feel like these would be very rng intensive and not have much engaging gameplay tbh, especially bad when you consider that getting a good time will depend on where the crab wants to move to at the end of wave 5
