Hi everyone,

Glad to see the number of new runs coming in for Gargoyles, everyone is doing an awesome job! When the leaderboard was first created, we had intentions that top times would require having an actual Genesis/Megadrive console, and if possible, the game itself. While that's nice and all, these retro items are not always easy to come by for everyone. So that mode of thought has gone away (at least for this leaderboard, can't speak for others).

Still, as the community grows and the top of the leaderboard trends more toward emulator/non-original console runs, I'd ask when submitting runs, that runners PLEASE include additional information regarding what's in use. Therefore, the following update will be made to the rules:

Emulator specifics:

-Emulator is allowed, and it is strongly encouraged to specify the emulator used in the run and its version in the comments -Emulator must simulate perfectly or almost the lag present in console version -It is strongly encouraged to enable frame counter -It is encouraged to enable display of input -If using a non-original Genesis/Megadrive, please specify the console used in the run in the comments

Last, but not least, please include a reset, soft or hard, of the game in your submissions. This will be included in the new rule updates.

Please let me know if anyone has questions or comments, and feel free to reply here. I'll wait on the update for a few days to see if there are any comments, but please expect the rule update to go in no later than Sept. 15th and in effect going forward.

Thank you!

-It is strongly encouraged to enable frame counter Name the emulators that support this. I do not understand such things and where to look for them.

As I don't play on emulator myself, I was referred the following:

-Retroarch has a framecounter for its Genesis cores (GenPlusGX and BlastEm), -BizHawk (which uses GenPlusGX)

BlastEm and GenPlusGX would be the highly encouraged options.

-Retroarch is prohibited from using some games, and BizHawk lags a lot for me, so I use Fusion. But unfortunately there is no frame counter in it, but there is Fps, which also allows you to track where the lag is in the game.

Retroarch is ok here, as even Shime uses Retroarch with the GenPlusGX core. And if Bizhawk is not an option, there's still the BlastEm or GenPlusGX standalone emulators themselves.

From an overall Sega community perspective, I haven't heard of Retroarch being prohibited. I have heard of tension with it in the NES community and it's avoided there. I'll reach out to some members of the Sega community regarding emulators and get their input.

frame counter, fps, you need to add as a recommended rule, because these functions are not on all emulators, I completely agree with the rest

I agree with all of what is said. Frame Counter and Input Display should be recommended and specify where are you playing makes it even clearer.

About the Soft/Hard Reset, just a doubt, the recording must start when we press the reset button (in case in a previous attempt go wrong) or when the SEGA logo shows up?

I made an update to my original post regarding when the rule update was to go in. I should have estimated the date a bit better than Sept 7th, so it's been updated to Sept 15th, but this might change again.

Talking with the Sega community, I've received mix feedback regarding Kega Fusion, where some list it in the rules for their games, and others don't. But all emulators have some kind of faster timings and more lag reduction than original console. Here are the timing comparisons between emulators for reference: https://tinyurl.com/y5fb8r2d

For us, for Gargoyles, you all are the community. And definitely listening, we'll include Kega Fusion and follow a similar emulator rule set that borrows from Sonic 3 & Knuckles and community feedback. If the rules don't quite apply to Gargoyles, then we can reassess again. I will say we need to reduce the allowed emulators, to reduce the extra factors that come in when new emulators are introduced. Where you've mentioned something "should be recommended", we'll make it recommended and revisit at a later date if the rules need to be updated again around the recommendations.

So with that, here's what the update will look like. Please feel free to leave comments if you agree/disagree:

"Emulator Rules: The following unofficial emulators are allowed (Here are the timing comparisons between emulators for reference: https://tinyurl.com/y5fb8r2d):

- Kega Fusion 3.64 - Deprecated, but allowed for accessibility and ease of use
- Genesis Plus GX (standalone or through Retroarch, BizHawk, specify) - Recommended, but faster than console
- Blastem (standalone or through Retroarch, BizHawk, specify) - Seems more accurate than GPGX, still in development

For Fusion (only 1 this is needed for) - FPS Visible in the bottom of the window. - Text in the bottom right either showing: - Soft Reset - Hard Reset - x Startup (where x is either "Genesis", "MegaCD" or "Master System") (Shime, to answer your question, the recording should start before your included reset)

Retroarch/BizHawk - Showing the Retroarch Menu that displays the Genesis Plus GX core and version in the bottom left. (If not shown at the start of the run, please provide a timestamp in the run description of where this is shown.)

If available to the above emulators, it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to enable frame counter and display of input.

Savestates For Full-game runs, the use of save states at any point during the run will void the run. For IL (individual level) runs, save states may be used to return to a point before the transition to the level starts, but not during or after the run.

Analogue Mega Sg Rules: For runs using the Analogue Mega Sg, the Mega Sg's main menu screen (the screen with the "Run Cartridge" option) and its buffer options screen must be shown before a run. The game must be visibly reset before a run. Submit Mega Sg runs as "Sega Genesis" with the "Emulator" option ticked, and state that the submission uses the Analogue Mega Sg in the submission's description. If using the "Zero Delay" buffer option, RTA time will be corrected to make up for the speed discrepancy the option creates.

If using a non-original Genesis/Megadrive, and not an Analogue Mega Sg, please specify the console used in the run in the comments of the run."

(Update - going to also add a rule for flash carts. "Flash Cart: If doing runs from a flash cart, include which one is used in submission notes, ie Everdrive, etc.")

Enjoying this thread, wouldn't be better if we change the category to just Easy/Normal/Hard?

I think the "Any%" on the category doesn't sums to the game itself.

I think the "Any%" was included due to the various skips that occur in the game, but I'm not entirely sure on that myself. But you can refer to other boards that have "Any%" and then have "Any% Glitchless".

But now you have me wondering if categories should exist for Any% Glitchless? If there's an interest for that? Any% Glitchless would be no clips through the ground on stage 2, no clip through the wire on the forge right before Demona, no Demona quick kill, to say the least. Not sure off the top of my head what else to add.