How about default/custom tabs? I like the challenge, but it's objectively easier and faster if resources just set to max capacity, especially in farming, and even more so in .162 where regrowth speed is lowered.
We could and I was thinking about it. .162 just furthers this discussion. Currently it just follows any% rules.
Now, do we do this for all categories? Have a custom vs default? I’m not sure if only the items deserve it.
Would default only apply to resources? Or map generation as well? As a truly default experience has the game generate everything for you.
For all categories except campaign i think. May as well add "default random seed", it's gonna happen sooner or later. Don't know if starting and available bioms should be restricted, they kinda have default state but no option named "default". So, "seeded", "seeded default resouces" and "default random seed"?
I think default is fine. You have to accept all settings as they are by "default". Seed, resources, terrain, etc.
Maybe: Default, Seeded - Default Resources, and Custom/Any%?
I am not sure how I feel about "Seeded". I mean the rules are there to explain things, but the easier it is to see based on the name the better. "Seeded" alone doesn't make it seem like you can change resources. It's only implied via the other category called "default resources"
I do think the 3 tiered systems sounds fine as each is it's own unique thing. I can rewrite the rules, but Just want to get names in line.
Yah Campaign I want to keep as the dev intended. When I asked about categories it was more: Should the item runs be included? Mostly because you can't add "sub-sub categories". And the item runs may need to be restructured. Or have less option. Because w/ 3 items AND 3 sub categories that is 9 options. The only easy way to to split each item into a category and put them in the "misc" section to avoid clutter.
Leave items how they are for now in that case. Just "Seeded" is fine imo. I like the idea that the same run can be submitted to both categories as default resources do not contradict the rules. And the rules should be read anyway, so very descriptive category name is not needed. Or you can separate them completely: "Seeded Default Resources" and "Seeded Custom Resources". But I would prefer the first variant. Just "Default" ok.
Offtopic: versioning may be needed soon. Maybe after all campaigns are out, cause they are coming out too often. Current warm coat record, for example, is much harder to achieve now, if able at all.
Oh wow my response never went through.
Should Any% be split? I'm hesitant to limit Any% more than it is. Maybe a new category for default settings like Factorio? Any% and Default Settings as two full categories.
As for BaseLvl 10 and 100% I could split those into Default, Seeded, and Seeded-Default Resources. Or something along those lines. 3 categories. 2 sub categories sound nicer to me however. A seeded vs default split. It doesn't take long to cycle through seeds. I get the idea with the 3rd category with .16x, but I'm sure Erik will be tweaking crops again soon.
Versioning is it's own monster. There are two option Version ever major release
- Create more categories, but is less subjective
Version ad-hoc -Normally when a run is "unbeatable" on a current patch, but that is hard to prove and a future path could make it beatable again. However this could leave runs up longer.
Versioning is also annoying in categories with sub categories. And is only really applicable to the shorter more optimized runs.
Both are good points that could use more discussion. Wish there were more runners to chime in. Hope Poly puts up a run soon.
New Major Categories Any%, Default Settings, Base Lvl 10, Base Lvl 10 - Default Settings, 100%, 100% - Default Settings
Misc. Categories BerryCake%, WarmCoat%, MetalConveyor%
Initial comments For Major categories, 4 sounds nicer to begin with for me: Any%, Default Settings, Base Lvl 10 and 100%
What version should we start retiring existing runs. .17x or .18x? Or should we wait till there are more runners for regular versioning and just ad-hoc it for now?
Sounds good. We'll start with 4. It's always easier to add things than remove them. Items will be moved to 3 separate Misc Categories to allow for versioning. I'll also redo the rules to make things cleaner [no changes to ruleset, just reorganizing]
Versioning. We can ad-hoc it for now. Is Warm Coat the only category we think should be versioned atm? Berry Cake and Metal Conv should still be beatable.
Ye, warm coat needs the same research as berry cake, which is the main slowing factor, so time should be around the same. Metal conveyor - I actually didn't look into, so idk.
Since Warm Coat will now take longer and makes it closer to BerryCake, should we just outright retire the category? I put it in because of the large time difference, but if the times are now closer, it doesn't make sense to have two items with the same run length. I'm in favor due to the time similarity to Berry Cake.
Metal Conv's WR was only like a week ago so it should be beatable, although maybe barely, or if not it will need to wait till a new patch to make it unbeatable. I don't think .17x will, but maybe .18x depending on the next round of balances.
Are you planning to create the Default Resources category for Base Level 10? Because I would have a run to submit.
I saw your run's, guy. So I did one myself. But I like default resources more. So I did like that. Unfortunately, I had to delete the audio from the recording, because it's mixed with some background noizes from mic and some music, etc. I was listening to. I hope the video will be still valid. I never posted speedrun before. This is would be my first. :-)
You can submit to existing category for now. If a new category will be created, moderator can move your run there, or you can submit the same video again.
We could add a "default resources" category specific to base level 10. However should we allow other things like settings seeds and allowing barn moving? Or should it be fully default like default settings?
Seed - yes, barn - no. Seed is map generation option, moving barns is game rule. All game rules should be default imo.
Here is the plan:
For Any%: We have the 2 extremes: Any% and default-default. Do we want a seeded-default resources category for sure?
For Base Lvl 10: Split into 3 sub categories: Any% style rule set Default Resources Default Everything
Also I plan to allow Default Resources to mean: You can only change seed and biomes. No game rules, or resources.
Any objection? If not, someone can let me know when a run is ready.
Since the rule sets fit in like a pyramid Default runs also qualify for Default resources, which also qualify for Any%, I will auto tag runs with the most restrictive rule set they apply to. So you can submit to multiple categories.
Also I think I may 86 the 100% category.
