Amen san did a fantastic run. My only request is that the leaderboard be split. You can only skip cutscenes after you have a cleared save file on a memory card. It’s technically a new game plus or cutscene skip (whatever name chosen is fine.)

I personally didn’t get around to doing the destrega run yet but it would be nice to have both categories for marathons. Japanese and English versions don’t seem to make a difference either.

I do think it would be silly to have the leaderboards share runs both with and without cutscenes, so I went ahead and created a new variable to distinguish between the two types of runs.

Any run made without a cleared save file loaded will be considered an "All Cutscenes" run since they can't be skipped with this method of play. If a cleared save file exists, the run should be marked "NG+" and cutscenes should be skipped to stay competitive in that category.

Thanks @DBcade :)

My two cents: I think it is weird to split the leaderboards, as I don't see it as a NG+. NG+ woudl be indicated, this is a normal new game, just with the added benefit of being able to skip cut scenes. Nothing about the gameplay or difficulty itself changes. I see it the same way as in games like SOTN for example. SOTN has this same mechanic, which is also used without any restriction. This is a speedrun after all so I don't see the necessity for having cut scenes in a run, but that's just my opinion :)

Well I won't speak for anyone else, but as far as I was aware when I ran it, cutscenes were unskippable in this game, and the two runs on the boards at the time both started on a brand new game, unable to skip cutscenes. I'm not sure it's entirely fair to automatically make those runs obsolete despite the likelihood that they were attempting to play the game as fast as they could with the knowledge they had at the time.

If you don't like the NG+ tag, I'd be open to changing it to something else if you have suggestions. But technically speaking, the run would be considered NG+; it's a playthrough started with a cleared save file, and the save adds an additional feature not present in the first playthough (skipping cutscenes). Sure, it may not include a ton of of extra features or content like SOTN, but it doesn't need to.

But personally, I don't see anything wrong with separating the two different playstyles, especially since the majority of the runners established the leaderboard with runs that included cutscenes. I don't know the history of the SOTN leaderboard, but if I had to guess, NG+ has always been the common method for them since the beginning. Obviously this leaderboard started differently, and I think the other runs should be respected as they are.

I will say I am tempted to do a cutsceneless run in the future, maybe help fill out that board. I hope I articulated my stance on this matter; just trying to be as fair and respectful as possible. Nice work on the run.

Thanks @kyletx500 I get where you're coming from. What I don't get is why a new finding shouldn't make previous runs obsolete, that's what new findings are bound to do. If the consent is that two categories make sense, then so be it. I just don't see any added benefit of a category that has cut scenes as it doesn't change the playstyle, it just has the cut scenes. Also this is a game that very few people ran so far, I see it as an incentive for runners which did runs before this finding to do new runs.

If the decision is to split the categories my suggestion would be:

• Call the category which uses the cut scene skip 'Cut scene skip'
• Call the category which doesn't use the skip 'No cut scene skip'
• Make the cut scene skip category the main one, as it is the faster one without using something like ACE or similar game breaking things.

As you are a mod and the change to the leaderboards was already done prior: I'm just trying to give my opinion and input, ultimately it isn't my decision to make. I really don't want to decredit any previous runs, as they got me into running this game. My opinion is just that there is a new finding which skips something that doesn't add anything to the run itself and I personally think it is a good addition. Waiting through cut scenes and having little gameplay in a run that's over one hour was putting me off at first, that's why I'm glad there is the possibility to skip them.

Thank you for this discussion. Also I agree that the cutscenes are long and annoying, so of course during practice I have a clear file on the memory card. This isn't a new finding and I should have posted this a while ago, but that was back when there was only 1 run on the leaderboard and I thought it was common knowledge in regards to Destrega.

I was just thinking about it from terms of fairness, I would be submitting a run of both cutscenes and non cutscenes when I get around to it. I also think for submitting to marathons, having the English versions with cutscenes which has a dub "so bad its good" is really funny and a great incentive way to look at it.

Destrega is actually a fun game, so I am glad this leaderboard is active as it is. Remember this is still a dollar bin game. Is this because of Zauber spam? Anyway I like Amen's name titles for the categories, and I agree with Cutscene skip being the main.

The main reason I 'd push for the "NG+" terminology to be used for cutscene-skip runs is that that's technically what it is. I think labeling it this way makes it very obvious to anyone browsing the boards that cutscenes can only be skipped if they fully beat the game once first and have a cleared file.

Naming them "Cutscene Skip" and "No Cutscene Skip" respectively seems like a decent idea at first, but I think it also implies that there's some trick to skipping cutscenes, which as we know, there isn't. On a first playthrough, cutscenes can not be skipped no matter what you do. I just fear that naming it this way could make the difference more confusing to a new player. "NG+" is a very common terminology, and tells anyone immediately that the game must be finished once before they even have the option to skip cutscenes.

I just see splitting the boards as a win-win as it allows runners to play the way they want: as long as they're making an effort to play quickly, cutscenes or not. Freedom of choice is essentially what I'm advocating for. I'd love to do more runs of this game without the cutscenes and work at optimizations, but I see both methods as equally valid, especially when the game forces the cutscenes on a first playthrough.

And may I just also say, it's lovely to see more people embracing this game, regardless of how they decide to tackle it.

Hello gang, sorry to be late to the party. Life is chaos, as it would be.

I appreciate the discussion and all parties respective opinions. I personally do agree with kyletx500 in the regard that in perspective of run categorization, it is in all technicalities a run that requires a cleared save game file, and thus is not true New Game. I also very much agree with DBcade in the aspect that having them separated but both equally viable is a great option, due to the sheer C-Tier entertainment of what the cutscenes provide for a run that would be enjoyable to watch during an event, as it really provides the true nature of an Awful Games Done Quick block contender. I can wholeheartedly understand where Amen is coming from (and once again, great job on the runs. super glad to have someone actively participating, it inspires me to contribute more) in their opinion of "cutscene skip" division, but it does for me ultimately come down to as kyletx500 stated: what the run was established as and most commonly performed as.

I don't want to lord position over anyone as being the top mod, I'd like to believe we all have equally as much to offer in value to make this leaderboard a quality addition to the site. I just know that the original moderator who initially requested and ran this game, before passing down control to me, did intend for it to be played with the cutscenes and I'd like to try to respect that. I know that may seem to have little bearing on the discussion of "skip category vs new game plus" but what I'm thinking is that it lies more true to the run if the new game plus category remains as intended, and not altered to change the entirety of how the runs are presented. I feel it is best after deliberation upon the matter, to have New Game and New Game Plus be the separation between run eligibility.

This is my standpoint, but I am open to discussing this matter, I may be a little late to reply so be patient with me. Thank you.

Thanks for the response @1800POOPNOW and for you and @DBcade touching on a point I didn't address earlier.

The cutscenes in this game are incredibly cheesy and entertaining, and I think keeping a run with those intact could really help with getting this game into marathons like GDQ's Awful Block, Big Bad Gameathon and the like. I think that's a very valuable reason to keep the cutscene run alive, in addition to the points I made previously.

I get those arguments and I think it is valid to keep all cut scenes as its own dedicated category. The category with cut scenes skip should be the main category though imo.