Earlier, I was watching a runner use the 5-life code, and I told him the run probably won't be accepted with the code. I assumed as much, since this had been the case for decades.

But he told me something that shocked me. "The rules don't say that." - I had to go check, and he's right.

I just want to make sure if we're in agreement. Is the 5-life code actually banned, or merely frowned upon?

I know I've been on a bit of a rampage through the category layout changes, but one more thing has been nagging my head. After switching out of "No Wrong Warp" over confusion regarding the colloquial vs. technical definition of a warp, this confusion still remains in the "Warpless" category. This name was invented in the SDA days, before the turbo tunnel skip existed.

Again, I know the turbo tunnel skip is not technically a warp, but out of respect for anybody who might be confused about it, I'd like to suggest a more palatable alternative: the "All Stages" category. As before, I'll give it a little time before changing the name, in case anyone's opposed to it.

Yes or no?

Correct me if I'm wrong. Do we all use the same start frame?

Our rules say that frame 1 begins on the first frame controlling Rash. If I'm not mistaken, we've been deciding frame 1 in runs based on the first frame touching the ground.

I've confirmed on Bizhawk that you are influencing Rash sooner than this frame. The simple proof is that you can press B to punch several frames sooner, while you are still airborne. But even in the movement alone, the reason it takes a while to turn around while holding down & left is because there is rightward momentum as the player lets go of the rope. It's not so visible to the naked eye, but there is in fact influence happening in those airborne frames, which I've further confirmed by doing frame counts pressing left on different airborne frames and getting different results.

We can safely use the first frame Rash lets go of the rope as a viable start frame, since that is the earliest frame we're able to influence. It's not a big deal, but we might need to shift the milliseconds on our runs to be a few frames slower, at least in the future.

I can't recall if this was my choice or not. I added the category myself, but I assume there was good reason for one of us to put it in the miscellaneous tab. If that was me, I don't know why I did that and I apologize, but I don't remember doing that.

That said, I feel as though there should be recognition on the main listing for what is technically the fastest category of Battletoads. That is the point of this leaderboard after all.

I think additionally, to not draw as many eyes to it as the main category, I'll rename it to Any% (Credits Warp).

I thought it was fair to ask here first. Does all that sound okay?

Hi all! I would like to pull off an old bandage real quick, and ask if we've remained consistent on the name of this category.

Many of us in the first discussions to the change were considering 'No credits warp' as a suitable name, but with some deliberation, we ultimately decided 'No wrong warp' was a better way to filter out any potential future wrong warp discoveries that didn't take us to the credits, but merely to a late stage. It was still a new trick after all, and the possibilities were endless.

The problem: It's been 5 years now, and that never happened. So I think that fear was unfounded.

But with 'No wrong warp', the other problem very much exists: the confusion. And that's what's making me reconsider. Newcomers will see me in attempts taking the bikes to a glitch world, seeing a whole lot of 'wrong' happening, and seemingly 'warping' to stage 4. Inevitably, I get this question: "Isn't that a wrong warp?"

And you know, it's perfectly understandable that they're asking this question. I know it's not really a warp, and I'm happy to explain why it's not really a warp. But it certainly looks like one to someone not familiar with the technicality of what's happening. And that is what's making me consider 'No credits warp' a more suitable name, just to make it more palatable to more people.

What do you all think? Is it fine the way it is, or should we change it?

I've been dreading bringing this up for years.

TL;DR the question is at the bottom.

So a few years ago, Koh1dendy came up with this:

Despite there not quite yet being the possibility of the floor clip in stage 4 with Zitz, the stick we can materialize with him makes it still considerably faster than our current WR with Rash.

Koh has also proven several times it can be done in single-segment RTA:

The problem is it is much, much rarer for a run to finish. I recall Koh said the turbo tunnel skip with Zitz is triple frame perfect, and that there's a 9 out of 10 chance the game will crash in stage 9 with the standard out-of-bounds trick. So the only reason the top players haven't done this yet is because we simply haven't had the balls.

But then this raises the issue about the two toads having two different properties, thus arguably being two different runs. Which, of course, raises the question about whether it would deserve its own category.

So since we've never really had this discussion in an open forum, I ask you all if we could discuss and possibly form a conclusion --

If somebody were to beat the current WR with Zitz using the stick in stage 4, should that run be placed in our single main category alongside Rash runs, or do we create two separate categories for the two toads?

I can't seem to view my video on here or twitch. Just making sure it's not just me. Won't let me export to youtube either. Hope it's not gone forever...

Hi all. :) I have fixed the two categories for Any%, and created the rules for them. Let me know if there's any problems. I have spoken to Koh1Dendy personally, and he's fine with this. I will still make the main category Any% with no wrong warps, abbreviated as 'Any% (No WW)'.

One quick note to some who have asked: The turbo tunnel endstage skip we did prior to this is not a wrong warp. It's an endstage trigger, like the rat boot. You're still playing every stage from beginning to end, technically. That's why we've allowed the rat boot and the turbo tunnel skip in the 'Warpless' category for all these years, as we've never called them 'warps'. For that reason, I think 'Any% (No WW)' is suitable.

I don't mind 'no credits warp' as an alternative, but as one poster mentioned earlier, new things will likely be found in the future that might make the name of the category a bit of a mouthful. Say somebody discovers a skip that warps you from turbo tunnel to the beginning of stage 12. 'No WW' would cover that as well, whereas 'no credits warp' would not. I think the former best covers all we'd want to see separated from our main category. Let me know what you think.

Congrats to Koh1Dendy for the new Any%!