Hello, I would be interested in doing a few A10 100% runs. However, I don't really feel comfortable with the current rule of "The player needs to kill Izaro in the Merciless labyrinth prior to killing Kitava"
As this run category is supposed to mimic a league start (and I would also reckon that there would be a few people that watch these runs for actual league start advice), it is possible that there are people (such as myself) who do Merciless lab after killing Kitava (if my build doesn't need Merc Lab that much, I'll even do it when I'm in T5 maps).
My suggestion for the modified ruleset would be this: "The timer stops when any of these 2 criterias have been met:
- The resistance message after killing act 10 Kitava pops up. The player must type /passives, which must show either 20 or 22 passives as well as 6 ascendency points.
- The player allocates their final 2 passive ascendency points after killing Izaro in the Merciless labyrinth. The player must type /passives, which must show either 22 or 24 passives" (this is to prove that the player has killed A10 Kitava)."
Hopefully you'll take this suggestion into consideration.
Will bring this up to others. I see your point about merc ascend effectively functioning as another point for stopping run.
Obviously replying very late, apologies for reviving a dead conversation, but I completely agree with Timmy here and I thought I'd give my two cents, because it seems like the initial rules (which I disagree with) were kept in place.
I see two arguments for why you'd want to make people do all skill points / labs before Kitava:
The verification argument: The current ruleset ensures that verification occurs at a single point in the run (i.e. you see Kitava dying, /passives being typed, and /deaths being typed all around the same time, with the /passives always having the correct amount of skill points)
Counterargument: Even if you were allowed to do skill points / labs after Kitava, you would still only have 2-3 points of verification in the run at maximum. It would still be a very streamlined verification process.
For example, let's say you killed A10 Kitava first, then did Merc Lab, then realized you forgot to pick up the Dweller skill point so you do that last. All you would have to do is type /passives and /deaths after the Dweller skill point, and then the verifier can just go through the video and look for the Kitava kill and the acquisition of the merc lab ascendancy points. This doesn't suddenly become a situation where the verifier has to watch the entire run, it's still very fast for them to go through.
The philosophical argument: The run should end with killing the final boss, and there is a great deal of precedent for this in other games. For example, in Super Mario 64 120 star, the run always ends after killing Bowser in the Sky, even though it could be viewed as an "objective collection" category.
Counterargument: This is a way stronger argument and harder to counter, but I have always distinctly felt that 100% categories are purely about getting your character to X level of progression, with the order taken to get there not mattering. I guess this kind of speaks to Timmy's point about how All Skill Points + Lab essentially mimics league start. Whatever route you take, you are producing the same end product: a map-ready character, and it just makes so much more sense in my head for THAT final product to be the end goal of the run.
I actually think getting the two skill points from Lani in the A10 run SHOULD be required, because in my mind that's absolutely a requirement to get your character to the "maximal" level of progression that you can obtain from all ten acts of the story.
I feel like I'm not arguing this point very well and it frustrates me that I can't do it in a more logically bulletproof way, but I guess that makes sense because it's a purely philosophical disagreement lol. Maybe I'll come back and add to this once I can better express my thoughts.
Response to the counterargument: "Oh, so you mentioned how the category is about creating a map-ready character, like during leaguestart? Then why aren't capped resistances required then? What about HP, bestiary progress, bench crafts, etc? The way you are redefining the category opens it up for more arbitrary requirements like those to be added."
Pre-emptive response to the response to the counterargument: I don't LITERALLY mean the category should be a "map-ready" category, I just think completing the skill points, labs, and final boss kill in any order just captures the spirit of the run so much better, and it's hard to perfectly describe why.
IMO philosophically the requirements for a10 100% should include all skill points and labs - a10 kitava gives 2 skillpoints, and therefore is naturally included in the requirements.
Perhaps we should consider changing the endpoint of the run as arriving in karui shores? This allows players to decide the order of completing kitava/lab3 while still keeping a clear ending point - which can be autosplit, then /passives and /deaths can be completed.
One reason why the speedrun ends when the -resist message pops up is to be consistent with the act 5 category. It's to avoid any confusion. Also, thematically it makes sense for the final big boss to be the last thing in the run.
