I just saw today that Mekarazium beat my world record, and I congratulate him. I've watched the run and it's solid. I did notice one thing however: his run was done on a completed file, meaning that he did not have to wait for character unlocks after each fight, while my run, and every other on the boards, was done on a fresh file. I'm not, like, mad about my record being beaten, absolutely not, I like the new competition. However, I want to ask: Should we include some distinction between fresh files and completed files, since this isn't addressed in the rules?
Update: Watched my run back and accounted for time save from unlocks (timing from first unlock text to loading icon on each fight). Saves ~57 seconds. Still beats my time by another 10 seconds. Still notable.
Well, it wasn't adressed by the rules, so i just went along w/ 100% unlocked file.
At the same time, i don't see a reason to use fresh one. You're intentionally going slower because of the extra mashing you have to do after every fight, and there's a huge chance that NG+ characters have no effect for Storymode (based off Naruto's loops dps). I honestly don't see a reason to do extra inputs during the run, if it has no effect on a run itself.
You can try to check for the differences between the original PS2 and PCSX2, and maybe you'll find something out. I mean, besides some inconsistencies w/ FPS and PS2 fights/areas loading much faster.
I understand that. You're right, the fact that you get new characters doesn't matter since you can't use them anyway. I'm just saying if there should be a distinction between fresh file and completed file runs in the rules for the future. Something like "Runs must be completed on a fresh file" or "Runs can be completed on a completed file". Just something solid. We recently had a discussion about changing the rules involving start and finish timing, and the file was something that we didn't think about at the time. I'm asking whether we should make a rule for it or not, since your new record is the only run on the boards that uses completed file. Up to the mods and a "community vote" of sorts.
Thanks for looking into this Denison. I didn't even notice when verifying. I would say that 57 secs is a pretty big time save. I would be fine with editing the rules to state run can be played on either fresh save or non fresh save. I wouldn't want to force fresh save rule and invalidate the new wr. I will update the rules with save files being noted. If you have any issues, please feel free to either message me or continue with this thread.
Thank you Soulless for looking at this. I would say maybe separating them into different categories instead, kind of like I mentioned before: Hero's History: Fresh File, Hero's History: Completed File, and maybe even adding in Ultimate Contest for anyone crazy enough to try that lol
Dividing the leaderboards of a dead game with barely any runs (including obsolete ones), based on the savefile differences (that saves a minute, if you've never cleared HH before, takes an hour) doesn't seem like a good idea. Not only you'll get another "free rekkie come here" zone, you won't attract any new runners to the game, and well, make the leaderboard look slightly worse.
I'm not sure why would you do that tbh. Unless you want to make me come, and make another run that won't utilize NG+ savefile, but you've already noted that if we subtract the timesave from ng+ file, i'll still beat you. So, what's the deal?
I'm sorry. I'm not trying to take anything away from your run here. What I've been saying is, because your run is the only one that utilizes a non-defined loophole in the rules when everyone else doesn't, I just wanted things to be "fair" between everyone's runs, if that makes sense. I don't want to come off as someone who's jealous because my record got beaten. I'm just trying to even things out. If we don't want to worry about it then we won't. If we wanted to take a vote on it, I suggested that before. It's up to you guys, I'm not gonna worry about it heavily besides the fairness of one run taking advantage of a loophole that wasn't explained beforehand and was, I thought, implied. But whatever we want to do about this, I'm fine with it. I'm sorry that it appears like I'm trying to diminish your run Mekazarium, that's not the point of this discussion.
I might even delete this thread before things get out of hand if we don't come to a conclusion on this. I won't let this minor issue of a "dead game" go to a war of words.
btw here's your new WR, video uploading to YouTube now https://twitter.com/GoDenison/status/1124525497168297986
Something else Meka, there's nothing stopping you from doing another run and beating my old WR time with a fresh file. That run was over 2 minutes behind my sum of bests, and you use better strats, like in the macro fights (Shukaku, Manda). I think it can be done, if you take the time to do it.
That's why when rules loophole occurs, you'll try to find out the effects of it, and determine a new set of rules. Since NG+ doesn't have any effect on the run itself (besides the "unlocking"), i doubt we have to change anything, so that's the idea i'm behind, and i'm glad that our discussion didn't went south.
Good. I still hold that NG+ and regular any% should be separate, and I still hope things do change in the future, but I don't want it to end up with us hating each other over it.
I just got done looking over everything and I appreciate this discussion being constructive. I am personally apposed and not comfortable with splitting the speed run into an ng+ category due to the lack of runners for the game. I also agree with Mekarazium in the sense that it dosn't change the run other than a dialog not appearing between scenes.
I still don't think this is right. I know I mentioned before that I wouldn't get mad, but this still doesn't right like the right way of doing things. I'm not gonna do runs like this, and let the leaderboards be handled this way either. So, I have a final proposal of diplomacy, a gentlemen's agreement: I delete my old AND new WRs (Soulless, you can reject that new run) and you delete your run Meka, we change the rules, and then both grind for and submit brand new runs. That's the only way I see this being handled correctly.
Thank you Meka for doing this. I'm willing to give up my runs for this. Once Soulless changes the rules then we can submit new stuff and put this whole thing behind us.
Added a new category and updated the rulings of both let me know if you have any more requests/questions/concerns. I am here to help
Thank you Soulless. I appreciate it. I know this was messy, but it's the best way of going about it. Even when I've mentioned it to people in other communities they felt this was the best way to handle it as well. I'll be taking a sabbatical from the game for a few weeks to let other people have a shot at record too before I jump in.
