Some people on here have been talking about changing the rules/timing because of loading times, and I think it is necessary. In almost any other game, if emu/VC is faster than the original hardware, the loading times are added on, and there is no reason not to do that with this game.

My PB (23:52 on DS) is a better run than the current WR (23:37 on VC), but is slower due to the VC's much faster loading times. I've done a ton of in-depth timing analysis (including overworld RNG and the direction Mario faces on the flagpoles) using four different video sources, and I've found that VC is consistently ~48 seconds faster than DS.

I have extensive proof if anyone wants it, and I encourage anyone who doesn't believe me to do timing analysis on their own to confirm what I'm saying. Even if you think the difference is less than 48 seconds (I've seen other people say 35 seconds), compare my PB to the WR and you'll see that it is a better run.

I'll upload my run here after the timing/rules are changed.

Thanks, MyLittleWalrus

Thank you for informing me about that. My any% PB is really bad to be honest and it really dosn't deserve to be a world record. However, in most games (from what I've seen) do not ban VC unless decided by the community. I'm sure many people have had better runs than me.

I have nothing against running on VC and don't think it should be banned. I just don't think that people should have an advantage based on what console they use to play the game.

Also, this isn't anything personal or anything against you, it's just about making this a better game for speedrunning by not having arbitrary advantages.

I agree with walrus koffing

Also one factor that you may not have considered is overworld block movements. They can waste a lot of time if you're unlucky.

I'm totally okay with not saying my runs not a world record if it's not the best run out there. I will remove that title from my run since you have the IGT world record.

Yeah I did make sure to factor that in with the comparisons. My PB actually was close to perfect but the hammer bro walked across the bridge FIVE TIMES BibleThump

I don't remember what happened in my PB. All I know is that it was sloppy everywhere and I can save like 15+ seconds

Well we'll see what other people/the moderators think about this.

Wow man I just did the calculations the odds of that hammer bro luck are 1/128.

Yeah I couldn't believe it at the time haha. The max you can get in this route (with 8-F2 autoscroller skip) is 6. I think it's a even a bit rarer than 1/128 because if you kill the hammer bro in 8-3 (I think a 3/4 chance) he can't cross the bridge until after 8-6 so the max is 5. Whatever the chance, it's pretty crazy.

Yeah. Do you have a link to your run? I'm really interested to see it.

I haven't put it on youtube yet because I wanted to wait for all this timing stuff to get sorted out but I'll definitely put it up right now if you want.

Also, I use a few different strats than I've seen in other runs so I can tell you about them if you want.

I always love new strats :) I just finished grinding any% for the night. I'm going to try to PB tomorrow. And you can upload whenever you'd like I can't wait to see it! As for the timing issue it's hard for me because I only own the game on wii U. :/

It's fine that you only have wiiU, I'm sure we'll work it out. My strats:

Two things in general: -if you land on the flagpole backwards, it skips the animation of mario spinning around. Saves 5 seconds throughout the run -normal running speed is 3 pixels/frame and blue shell spinning speed is 2.75 pixels/frame (~90% speed) so I try to minimize the amount of time I'm spinning in the shell. You'll see me jumping around a lot and bouncing on enemies. I also use a glitch(?) that if you jump within the first few frames of landing, the double jump animation overrides the shell spinning animation and you keep all your speed. Not sure how much time this saves throughout the run, but it seems like a lot. Maybe 10 seconds?

The biggest route change is keeping the shell until 8-8

1-2: I have a more consistent strat for getting the shell from the box that loses probably 1 second 1-F: slightly faster way of breaking the bricks to the secret exit 5-3: consistent way of getting high 265 every time 5-G: -(didn't get in my run) bouncing off the broozer on the staircase to load the broozer above earlier so it breaks the blocks earlier -different way of hitting the vine block that might be faster (I don't know I never tested it) -setup to get in the door as soon as possible. Probably only a few frames faster but it looks cool! 8-F1: I use the slower bowser jr. kill, a few seconds slower but a lot safer 8-4: keep the shell instead of losing it. It looks to be a second or two slower overall (mostly lost in 8-7) but I prefer it 8-6: different strats since I still have the shell (slightly faster than fire). Also, I get an extra fire flower here 8-7: different strats since I still have the shell (slower than fire) 8-8: usually I take a damage boost here to lose the shell and get the star, but I accidentally get hit twice 8-F2: -had to use a backup because I got hit twice in 8-8. Usually I enter as big mario with a fire flower in the extra slot, then get the flower in the ? box. In my run, I entered as small mario with a fire flower in the extra slot, so I had to use my extra flower then get the flower in the ? box. -during the first part of the autoscroller skip, I do a triple jump to give me enough height to reach the second part in only 1 wall jump instead of 3. -since I have the extra fire flower I got in 8-6, I'm good on powerups for the rest of the run and don't need to stop for any more 8-Bowser: I don't know your strats since you got hit in 8-F2, but my fire strats are: -faster button in 2nd room -second d-boost in room 5 instead of room 6 -hit room 6 button from the top instead of the bottom

I had already an idea to set this loading time thing properly, now it's time to make it a real thing. Just a couple of things: do red blocks move faster on the overworld map on VC compared to DS? does the blue shell spinning speed is really faster than normal running speed on VC? If VC is faster than DS, even w/o loading times; a solution won't be that straightforward (we'd may go for IGT + transitions).

Nice to see new strats. Also, what do you mean for "getting the blue shell more consistently"? Execution itself or increasing the change of getting a blue shell there? If that's the last one I'm even more glad.

From the videos I've been looking at, it looks like overworld hammer bros/red blocks, shell spinning, and running speeds are exactly the same on both, and the only difference between DS and VC is the 73 loading screens.

For a solution, I think the best thing to do would be to add the delay on to VC times, but if 2 runs are very close (+ or - 3 seconds?) we could go through the videos and completely cut out the loading times to break a close call.

My setup for the blue shell just makes the execution easier, not raise the chance (sadly). What I mean make it easier is that there is only 1 variable the player has to control. I start 1-2 by holding right and run, and only that. Mario gets up from the crouch and runs to the right until he hits the bottom stair on the right staircase. I wait until the box is at a specific place with the background, then press and hold jump. So with that setup, everything is always the same and the only thing the player needs to worry about is jumping when the box is in the right place.

In the normal way of getting the shell, the player needs to worry about 5 things: when they press up to get out of the crouch, when they start holding right, when they press left after jumping, and when they jump at the box.

It's not 100% consistent, because the time you need to jump is very small, but only having to worry about 1 thing is better than 5.

I should be able to upload my video some time tomorrow, so you can see that and the other things I talked about.

Thanks for being a good moderator and working with the community, I know a lot of people don't do that as well as you guys.

The first one is a really good news, the solution will be way easier (yeah, eventually we're going to add time very precisely like you said).

I got what you said there, nice, I'll wait for your run. And thanks.

Great! I'll get everything uploaded tomorrow then. It was nice talking with everyone on here.