Hello Chroniclers.

First off, I apologize for not sticking to my original timeline of a few days for Part 2 of this. This was attributed to 2 main things:

1. I have been taking some extra time to think about how I want to approach this, which is very different than how I originally thought I was going to.

2. Anytime I sat down to try and type this out, IRL got in the way. (I know it's a lame excuse but I'm just being honest.)

PREFACE

This thread is intended to serve as a starting point for discussion regarding the topic I am about to bring up. I am referring to the variability of load times across all the different platforms and how they affect the RTA time. This is not an issue new to disc-based speedrunning games and their communities, but I believe we are at a crossroads for our community, though comparatively small, where we should at least begin talking about how this dynamic affects Chronicles. I am well aware that I am being long winded in the things that I say, and I apologize for that. I'm just trying to get all my thoughts out on this post, so I appreciate your patience.

LOAD TIMES AFFECTING FINAL RTA TIMES, AND ALL THE VARIABLES

It is already known that certain platforms are able to load screens and other parts of the game faster than others. For example, when running on a Playstation TV, the load time for the transition from the map scene to the first screen of the next stage is much faster than other platforms. Over the course of the run, that could add up to a notable time save against other platforms with longer load times. We have also learned, thanks to Krayzar's excellent research, that different platforms are faster at loading different things (my wording of that is probably sub-optimal), so it's not like one platform is necessarily faster than another across the entire run.

WHAT IS MY CONCERN?

I want to avoid the situation where the pursuit of the most optimized time means going out and getting the fastest loading hardware for the game, instead of just executing optimized strats.

WHAT ARE SOME POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS?

Some initial thoughts include the following:

1. The creation of some type of load removal program that can subtract loading frames from the total time of an RTA submission. To me this would be a perfect solution, but I have no idea how practical it is to make one for Chronicles or if it's even possible. Just spitballing ideas here.

2. The approval of certain disc speeds for emulator runs that can match, as best as possible, the fastest loading times of any original hardware. To me this solution is imperfect but doable. It would, however, take a LONG time to research to find out the exact load times for each individual platform, let alone each emulator and their respective disc speeds. In my research leading to this post, I think the Chrono Cross community did a great job conducting research for their game, which led to them approving Duckstation runs at a higher disc speed. I would like to conduct similar research for Chronicles in the future. I have a US disc of the game and can help with that. I know others have started to look at this as well, so I encourage you to share what you have learned thus far.

3. Just do nothing, relax and enjoy running the game. Do we really care about this all that much? Is it really that big of a deal? Are we OK with continuing to verify future submissions as long as everything looks fine in the run, even if someone went out and got a PSTV or used a faster EMU disc speed than someone else and it isn't immediately noticeable? Or should we strive for a little more regulation with the load times?

Again, this is only meant to be a starting point for discussion. No decisions need to be made, or should be made right now. I really want to know what you all think, and any insight or perspective on any of this is greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for taking the time to read this.

-TBS

Remember when I said PART 2 in the next couple of days? Oops. This time I mean it!

Hello fellow Chroniclers!

I am happy to see that we have recently had some new runners for this game! Welcome to the community everyone!

I feel like this is a good opportunity to reach out and discuss some possible rule changes and/or additions that, in my opinion, will help provide a stronger ruleset for the game moving forward. I also wanted to provide the opportunity for the community to give their 2 cents on some of these different ideas, so here we are!

I don't want this to be a crazy, longer-than-it-already-is post, so please be advised that there will be a 2nd forum thread dedicated exclusively to the biggest discussion piece. Please be sure to check that one out as well.

FRIENDLY REMINDER: SOFT RESET & NEW FILE CREATION FOR EACH ATTEMPT

I should have created a forum thread to share this rule back when I made it a year ago, and I don't think I did, so I apologize for not putting it out there more publicly, but as of last year, all submissions should show a soft reset of the game, followed by the creation of a new game file. To clarify, this means entering the name of a brand new file every time (even if its just "........" each time). As an example, I recommend checking out any of AgentWyvern's recent submissions. I added this rule so that we could be 100% certain that no RNG values from an already-created file potentially carry over to the next attempt. I (we?) do not yet know if this is the case with Chronicles, but it feels like a best practice we could adopt until we at least know more. Please make sure you include the soft reset and new file creation for every video submission.

Full Disclosure: I made a very honest mistake when verifying JupiterClimb's recent runs and forgot about this very rule. I have reached out to Jupiterclimb about this. He plans on continuing to optimize all the categories he has submitted for and understands the new rule now, so I am going to keep his times up for now in good faith that he will beat those times and include the file creation for future submissions.

PROPOSED RULE CHANGE: BGM AND SE

As of right now, the BGM and SE are allowed to be turned off if a runner wanted to do so. It is well known that turning off the BGM and SE saves a substantial amount of time throughout the run. IIRC it was about 45-50 seconds when I was running on my US disc on a PS3.

Some good conversations I've had on Discord allowed me to think about this: If somebody were to come around and sweep the leaderboards with very optimized times to the point that turning off BGM and SE would become mandatory to compete with said time, then it could potentially make the viewing/streaming/grinding experience less enjoyable. In turn, I also believe that it could turn people off from running the game in the future.

I propose that we change the rule for BGM and SE to be "ON" for all categories and for game audio to be included in the submission. Let me know what you all think about this. I think most of us agree to use BGM and SE anyway, but I want to hear from you.

OK, PART 2 is coming within the next couple of days! Thanks for reading everyone and stay tuned!

I tried to add you, but it would appear that I do not have this clearance, despite being a moderator myself. I will look into this as soon as I can.

UPDATE 2: Leaderboards have been updated with the new changes as well as some minor tweaks to make all categories, especially X68000, a bit more visible.

UPDATE: I have reached out to both runners of the X68000 category. I will make the proposed amendments to the leaderboard in 1 week if I do not replies from either of them first. Questions and feedback still welcome.

Hello.

I have been meaning to address this, but IRL has all but consumed me these days. My apologies.

So, about a month ago I actually came across this discrepancy myself.

I have the "1-Dmg" rom on my computer as well, and I copied the rom to my miSTer and fired it up through the X68000 core. The game then did the damage multipliers as stated on the posts you shared. I then researched some Youtube videos of X68000 gameplay and saw the same damage multipliers as my miSTer playthrough.

Needless to say, this dynamic COMPLETELY changes the speedrun for this category.

I think it is perfectly acceptable to have a "1-DMG Hack" category within the X68K section.

If anyone has feedback or more information, please share. I will not make any official changes until contact has been attempted to all runners affected by this change.

-TBS

I am happy to report that I am officially a mod for this game now. All pending runs have now been verified. I will do my best to check and verify runs on a weekly basis (2 weeks tops). Thank you to Dragondarch for adding me!

FOLLOW UP: I have reached out to the 3 remaining mods currently listed and followed up once again with SRC staff. Hoping for a resolution soon.

For the record, I did reach out to SRC to request to be a mod, but they said no and that I need to contact current mods of the game, none of which who are currently active or as far as I know submitted runs, besides Dittohunter. That's where we are with it.

I'm sorry for dragging my feet on this. IRL always comes first, but yes this needs to get worked out. Do the others who are listed as mods see these posts? If so, I am able and ready to be added as a mod. If not, I will reach out directly to them, though I can't be sure if they will see it. Are there runs currently waiting to be reviewed?

Hello, so I'm presuming you modded the PS1 Classic Mini, then? I don't see how that would be an issue, it would just be an emulator submission then, right? That's what I would think, but I am also not a mod and don't want to speak for them.

Hi! I had a thought and wanted to see what y'all think: With the recent distinction between JP and US runs on the leaderboard, do you think we should add to the rules that the title screen must be shown before the run begins so that we can verify the version?

I agree. We can revisit that if more runners come along. Thanks for doing this!

There is a great resource from The Cutting Room Floor that talks about all the differences between the different versions, including things that pertain to the run.

Here is a link to the page: https://tcrf.net/Castlevania_Chronicles

While I did discover many of these things on my own, this stuff has been known about for awhile, I believe. It certainly helps me to describe things way better than I was before! Others can still provide even greater insight than what I will attempt to do now. (Watch Strizer86's recently completed TAS of JP Original Mode. It's fantastic!)

EDIT: Link to Strizer86's JP Original TAS:

As you can read from the page, there are many different ways to play this game. The fastest way to play it is on an original Japanese release of the game (i.e. a physical JP copy or an ISO file of a physical JP release, which is what I currently use in my submissions for this game with Bizhawk. I do hope to get a physical JP copy one day!).

THE 2 BIGGEST REASONS WHY ORGINAL JP RELEASE IS FASTEST In Physical and Digital JP (i.e. PSN versions) releases of the game, the hitbox of the cross and dagger are larger than in International releases, which allows you to begin damaging and juggling the Stage 3 boss immediately when it appears. In International versions, however, you have to wait until the Ice Mage does its first attack and teleports, since the subweapons don't reach his first spawn point.

Also, in Stage 4 for Orginal JP releases, Medusa does not have proper I-Frames, which allows you to spam triple crosses and whips for a quick kill. In International releases AS WELL AS, unfortunately, JP Digital releases of the game, Medusa gets I-Frames after 2 hits, so you cannot perform the quick kill on those versions. This makes the optimal approach for stages 3 and 4 to have triple cross for the Ice Mage in Stage 3, and take it into Medusa for Stage 4, IF you are playing the Orginal JP release of the game.

Also, load times are slightly faster on Original JP releases compared to International and JP Digital releases.

It makes sense to split US and JP because we now know that JP is faster. Also, original JP releases, outside of using emulator, are not as accessible as some other versions of the game. However, we may also have to make considerations for the other dynamics at play here. If we did split it up, the categories that I would suggest are as follows:

US / EU Version (Physical/Digital Copies or Emulation) (Reason: Can't do certain strats that you can do in JP) JP Digital (PSN Releases, etc.) (Reason: Bigger subweapon hitboxes used for Stage 3 Boss) JP Physical (Physical Copies/Emulation of Phys. Copies) (Reason: Bigger subweapon Hitboxes & Medusa QK) (I would call it JP Original Release, but wouldn't want to get that confused with Original Mode.)

Does anyone know of any other differences that would make the EU version distinguishable enough for its own category? I'd love to hear from others who run the game too. Maybe I missed something in the page I provided above? Thanks for broaching the subject Lunatix. Although the community for this game is fairly small, I believe the topic is worth discussing.