So I wanted to ask if there would be interest in creating a Glich / Skippless category.

The rules would be very simple Normal or hard mode Beat the game. Runs must be done on a new game Both normal and hard difficulties are allowed Real time is used for this category Timing starts on difficulty selection and ends on completing the Triple Boost QTE on Death Egg Robot Using the rental system is not allowed.

• No skips
• No like it
• no out of bounce

by no skips I mean skips such as in the Egg Gate when you jump straight down from the rail to the finish.

a friend of mine and i would be interested in it, but please let me hear your ideas.

I've done this exact run before, and it's really boring. It's more or less just a "fast casual playthrough" and I don't foresee that much interest in it. Nothing wrong with doing runs of this on your own time, however, so go ahead.

If it does get enough attention we'd be happy to add it later on of course. Feel free to use this thread to compile videos untill then.

Here's some stuff to think about though:

• How does the "No skips" rule apply to Avatar's Drill wisp? At what point is something considered a skip?
• Which Modern tricks are and are not allowed. There's jumps that don't require going out of bounds, but do skip small parts.

I'll take Sayuri's run for a moment to explain what I mean (I hope you don't mind). there are a couple of skips that I don't really like Egg gate - you skip almost the entire level Luminus - Out of bounce Capital City - Floor Clip / skipp Capital City -Skip after Floor Skop Metropolitan Highway - skip Null space - skips

are a couple of skips that I don't consider necessary, but I don't want to judge anyone who uses them.

I would only find it better if there is a Glichless version of the run, for people who don't want to skip large parts of levels

and i don't see the drill as bad, it is a game mechanic and it takes a lot of practice to use it well

At this point you're not really describing a "glitchless" run, but a "no skips I don't like" run. If you want a glitchless category you're gonna have to think further than just "these skips I don't like" and be more detailed than "no skips".

Take Null Space for example, there are a lot of different routes through the stages and as a result there is no real "intended" route. Most of the skips just come down to, jumping to another platform or rail. Some of the routes skip sections using the drill, which you just described as a game mechanic that doesn't need to be limited by the rules, so are those skips allowed then?

Again it's fine if people want to run without skips, but in a game like this the ruleset for a "Glitchless" category needs to be extremely detailed.

That's why redirected you to the forums to start a more detailed discussion :) That said untill there's a widely agreed upon ruleset and some sample videos, you are free to run the game in whatever way you like and just submit them to the currently existing Any% boards! You are not forced to do skips you don't like in order to submit.

I’m just gonna hop into the conversation and just define a glitch as “going into an area where the stage assets unload and de-spawn” - that eliminates any major skips like; Egg Gate and Luminous Forest for example. The other skips shall remain as long as they don’t involve any wall-clips or texture unloading.

I think thats a better deffinition of what i mean.

I dont have a problem with a Few Skilled Jumps in a Run, where you go to jump to another Platform, my Only Problem whith that is when you Skip Large Parts of a level, Like Maniac says it.. so basicly no "Out of Bounce" and no "Wall Clips"

For me it is relatively difficult to express exactly what I mean because English is not my mother tongue, but maniac is quite good at what I actually mean

Also you could Combine it with Glichtchless/no Drill it would produce new routes, fewer skips would be possible, you could switch between the whisps more often, and I think it would be a fun competition because you would have to do a lot differently than in normal Any% runs.

So the Ideo Right now sounds Like Glichless Idea (can be editet over time )

Category Rules: -Beat the game. Runs must be done on a new game - Both Normal and Hard difficulties are allowed - Real Time is used for this category -Timing starts on difficulty selection and ends on completing the Triple Boost QTE on Death Egg Robot -Using the rental system is not allowed.

Forbidden - Going Out of Bounce - Going into an area where the stage assets unload and de-spawn like; Egg Gate and Luminous Forest for example. - wall-clips or texture unloading OPTIONAL: Using the Drill Whisp Because it is used for many Skips

Allowed - Normal Skips Like Jumping to another Platform Like in Null Space for example

I think this makes it easier to understand what I mean by "Glichtless"

I mean yes it can be a "boring" run. But I think that's what the Speedrun Community can also use, I think it would appeal to more people if there are more runs without gltches. Personally, I don't really see a problem, even if you would say you ban all the same things that have already been mentioned, or you leave the little ones inside. but i think that equalless runs would often appeal to more people, precisely because it is easier to achieve.

Of course you can put them in the Any% category, but does that really make sense? after all, you want to compete with those who do the same thing.

those are the reasons why I ask, I mean in the end only the mods decide what "Really" is valid and what not, there will always be someone who bothers with some trick

Since it's been brought up a few times, I just want to say that "Boring" is not an actual argument against leaderboards :) it's not up to you to decide what others enjoy running so if there's enough interest from other runners and it's completely thought through a leaderboard can exist. You can always choose to not run it yourself while letting others have their fun. It is however an explanation of why there hasn't been much interest up till now.

Similarly, terms like "Normal skips" aren't of any use to the discussion, because what's normal to you might be not normal to someone else, just like how what's boring to you might not be boring to someone else.

As for submitting it to Any%, yes it does make sense, Any% is merely beating the game from start to finish with whatever strats you choose to use and with any percentage of completion. Any run that beats the game can fall under it. That's why for any new leaderboards that impose certain limitations like "Glitchless" I want there to be a collection of videos to show to me that there is actually an interest in the category from enough people. If the interest isn't there, why split it from regular Any%.

The same would be required for the wisp-on categories Ryan brought up, but this thread is for Glitchless / Skipless so let's not derail the thread :)

As for rules. What I want to see is what Ryan brought up, what is allowed per stage and more importantly: why is or isn't it allowed. Consistent ruling is important.

Example below

Red Gate Bridge Banned: cutscene skip - Reason: requires Out of Bounds.

Mortar Canyon Banned: 2nd half skip - Reason: requires Out of Bounds. Allowed: 1st half skip - Reason: In-bounds, only requires jumping well

Ok. I’ll come up with a list of banned skips and come back here for an in-depth explanation of which skips should be allowed for “glitchless”.