Hi!

I was wondering what the stance is on changing the FPS from 30 to 60? When I tried playing 60 the only significant difference I saw from a running standpoint was that inventories moved faster. That clip demonstrates what I mean. It seems the IGT ticks the same, thus 60 FPS Inventory is better than 30?

I've seen other runs on the board on 60, thus my curiosity.

Thanks!

Pretty sure the inventory always runs at 60?

I don't think so Turbo, here's the same sequence at 30 FPS. My guess is there is less input lag between each action, thus you can spam the action button better. Also scrolling from item to item is quicker.

It's most significant at the locker, but cumulatively you'd save like four seconds or five seconds?

I am using the widescreen fix mod, but according to the documentation the fpslimit change comes from SH2proxy. I did know that the inventory was faster on original Xbox (have a copy, but don't have an original Xbox to play it on). Thanks for linking that video Zombie. :)

I have been doing runs on 30 since discovering just to be safe. Personally, I don't mind allowing it since some runs already have 60 FPS on the boards, and sh2proxy/widescreen fix helps this game function on a modern machine (e.g. Single Core Affinity). If we were to disallow 60 I guess those runs would be grandfathered in? I'd be happy to have a discussion about it though.

The other thing that I haven't tested is whether or not 60 affects the Normal/Normal strategy Supergamer made for the Pyramid Heads fight in the Hotel.

I'm keeping tabs on this thread, hit me up with some evidence and a clear direction of what ya'll actually wanna do, I don't really run this game at all so I can't make these conclusions myself (friendly reminder that I'm totally up to add new mods who actually know what the hell they're doing with SH2 to replace current dead weight). What runs have been allowed using 60 so far?

Thanks for the post Punchy, the only run I know of that uses 60FPS is the current UFO World Record. You can tell by the inventory. As for a clear direction of where to go from here, hard to say. I guess it could be that UFO you can use 60 but no other category? Or no 60 from here on out? Or allow 60?

I've been wondering when a response would happen. The SH running community seems spread out right now. I wouldn't mind trying my hand at modding, but I don't want to act like I am trying for a power grab to get things my way with this 60 vs 30 thing.

I do not see this as an accessibility issue. Running a third party program should only be allowed when it is actually necessary to increase the reliability of game stability when that is a primary concern. SH2 PC to my knowledge has no enormous crashing issues that would need some patch to remedy them.

If the IGT is in fact affected by the 60 FPS hack, it should not be used. Imagine I ran a digitally altered copy of OoT that ran at 60 FPS. The community would lose their shit. While not on the same magnitude of change, 60 FPS PC still constitutes an actual change in what is possible compared to the base game.

tldr; ban 60 FPS if it is proven to affect IGT.

Also of note, you could always grandfather runs in, or store them for posterity in a locked/sticky thread.

kinda got a run in verification that's probably using 60FPS (same guy) so this is pretty topical

edit: or well, I did until someone else verified it

The public opinion seems pretty unified to just not allow it at all.

my problem is that like

i'm not really sure how to tell by looking? Some people don't stream at 60 and if I'm perfectly honest I've got kind of a shit eye for framerate with this game. It's not much of a rule if I can't think of how I'd enforce it in verification.

2 options

1. enforce a rule that an FPS counter has to be onscreen (like overwolf)

2. Simply add a parameter for 30 FPS vs 60 FPS. This dodges the issue, but allows people to sort by one or the other without completely splitting the boards.

I added a variable thing and sorta just set everything to 30 apart from a couple of mexicanjustice's runs because they were the ones people pointed out to me. Otherwise, I have no clue which ones are and which ones aren't.

edit: I can undo this pretty easily fwiw, but for the time being I at least want incoming runs to be marked with a value, since the person submitting has no particular reason to lie.

You can easily tell the FPS when in the Toluca Prison section (that one cell with the invisible guy, the footsteps are a LOT faster).

Another way to tell frame rate is during Flesh Lips (or any time a bullet or shell is fired), the sound of the shell casing hitting the ground will be faster. It sounds as if the casing is bouncing rapidly.

Hello!

After reading through this, and talking to multiple people, I find that most runners would like to see the Mods "FPS Option" gone. Considering the FPS mod is the only option that actually changes the time of the run, only that Option will not be allowed. It's supposedly helping the game function properly for a lot of runners, so the Mod itself is okay to use.

I can't just DO IT though. I will need everyone to reply to this sometime in the next few days with either a "Yes", or a "No".

So... Ban the FPS Option?

I vote for a ban. Seems a little unfair to the people who grinded on the standard 30 also. This isn't like the 2D vs 3D thing either because this is a modification to the game, not some kind of option built into the game.

I cosign everything Wulfz has said. It was never an "option" in the first place so much as a placeholder. If software issues are that strong of a barrier of entry it wouldn't be difficult to upload an established sh2proxy release for anyone who wanted to use it. However, all of the hypothetical allowable mods aren't really hard to do by yourself - single core affinity in task manager, safe mode turns off if you restart. Fast transitions, the FPS limit increase, the cutscene mod, widescreen mode, the rendering resolution mod, and that random anti-aliasing(?) mod are all ban worthy.

As far as I know I was the only person who supported the idea of 60 fps, but I think people have made good points against it. I was interested in it mostly for pushing the game to its limits in terms of running/game performance, but the unfair advantage for the boards (especially because we compare console and pc) is clear and evident. Plus, the sentiment of the community as a whole is a strong no.

The subject of whether or not to allow any feature of the Widescreen patch goes outside the scope of the conversation. I don't understand why these other features (Fast Transitions, Rendering Resolution, anti-aliasing, etc.) should be up for ban if they are aesthetically based. For instance, I think you can change anti-aliasing via the NVIDIA control panel. What does that do besides remove jagged textures? I also do not know how we would police that?

I'd vote to allow because I'm selfish and it's less complicated for me to verify that way.

¤is punched in the arm¤

i mean yes, ban the thing. I'm in agreement with the whole thing about third party mods potentially impacting the game state in any fashion.

"For instance, I think you can change anti-aliasing via the NVIDIA control panel. What does that do besides remove jagged textures? I also do not know how we would police that?"

Yeah this I don't think is really enforceable at all or even worth enforcing if it's a change to your actual computer hardware. That's just PC gaming doing PC gaming things.

Plenty of illegitimate gimmicks can and even have been used to cheat the leaderboards before, so there's going to be a degree of trust involved regardless.

The transition mod changes the resolution of the screenshot SH2 takes when it opens your inventory; it uses the screenshot in the corner with your health. The onus of testing that kind of mod, if someone wanted to use it, would be on them, not the rest of the game's players.