So as someone who also uses a keyboard at work I have some concerns regarding the apartment section of this game.
The amount of strain this section puts on your hands is actually alarming, the stair skating is particularly demanding (similar to REHD). Just repeating this section a few times over I could feel some strain here. My fear is that anyone trying for a really competitive time is putting themselves at risk of injury (RSI).
Therefore in the interest of people’s health I would like the mods to seriously consider the idea of an apartment save file being created AND being mandatory.
I would just like to point out, I’m not trying to be a cry baby, this is all genuine concern, I have known ppl to ruin their hands playing REHD, I’d hate for that to happen to any of you.
The apartment is NOTHING compared to RE1 Remake Stair Skating, so that's not a good comparison at all. It's about 10 seconds of mashing the W key on staircases to save a few seconds. It's not that big of a deal at all.
As a guitarist i can say that your concerns are completely justified, but in the end it's up to the runner how to handle this. I felt some pain in my hand in RE2Remake just by pressing down the "sprint" button with my pinky finger all the time for more than 1-2 runs. But you can just set the running key to "toggle" and you are good to go.
Anyways, it's the same with practicing an instrument: just relax your hand from time to time and have some pauses in between your practice sessions. RE3 gives enough time for that during cutscenes for example ;). And tbh i think stair-skating isnt as bad for your hands as the "tapping" technique on an acoustic/e-guitar as an example. Also consider that you have to keep up the very same tempo for multiple repetitions on an instrument. And if you are playing in a band you have to practice this for at least 3-4 hours each day, but after a little while you won't feel the same strain on your hands as you get better and get more used to the micro-movements.
Hope this helps you! And good luck on the runs. :)
Edit: Also, try to minimize the movement of your fingers as much as possible! This way the "w"-key-spamming gets even faster while being less straining on your hand.
You don't go fastest by mashing faster, the theoretical best speed is is already achieved with light tapping maybe every half second, it might be even faster than full on mashing. But the apartment is boring af and eliminating it as a no intro category like fallout 4 would be great, not like re7 because it was relegated to a misc category instead of a variable, and the mods actually thought they did a good job.
@Orchlon RE7’s NGH was always a meme category, which was why it was relegated to a misc category. It was a joke before it was made, and it’s still a joke today. That entire community knew that as it was being created and knows it now, and the mods knew it when it was made. It literally says in the rules for the category that it’s a community meme. I think you’re the only person that ever tried to take that category seriously.
So, no, we wouldn’t attempt to recreate that meme here.
Not really a funny meme if you have to specifically point out that it's a meme isn't it? I had fun with it, definitely a better category that any%, you can keep insisting it's a joke, but if a category that's literally part of any% is a joke, then every level leaderboards would be a joke wouldn't it?
Trashcat brings up some great points. I think you'll find that grinding this game will lead to strain on your hands, much like any other speedrun really. Comes with the territory of doing repetitive inputs over and over. Doesn't mean you have to suffer though. You might be mashing W too much on the staircase, and can probably just lightly tap it. Thank you for your input @trashcat178
As for what you said, @Orchlon, "it's boring af" isn't even close to being a good reason to skip an intro that you still have to master, and perform better than others to save time. You also unnecessarily decided to take a shot at the RE7 mods for making a Misc. category that the community didn't even really support much anyways. (for the same reasoning I just said above.) Seems unnecessary, and I'd be best to not throw shade because you disagree with something from a different game.
I was just bringing up a couple of examples of games that have implemented categories that perform an intro skip because it's important to look at examples of what's being proposed. And I think you'll find that for both those games, the main reason why the intro skip was implemented was because the intro was very boring, despite having stuff in it that could save time and make a difference. Yeah I did throw shade and it was unnecessary.
While those are good examples, they're also much longer than the 4 and a half minutes it takes to get past the subway train. Fallout 4's intro is about 8 minutes (without loads), and RE7's is over 15. I don't think 4 minutes is really much to fuss about, no matter how boring it may be to some. It's also much different for nightmare/inferno, where there's an extra zombie blocking the gated door to Dario.
I also don't think it's near as strenuous as REHD stair skating, not really the most 1:1 comparison we can make, but i think your point still deserve some attention, Wham.
I would be in favor of a removal of the intro too, regardless of it taking skill, i think the timesave achievable there is so very short that even if we start to get RE2R levels of optimization it wouldn't make an absurd difference, even more so now that the strats are getting more homogeneous across the board between all runners, which are leading to closer times and less variance; even looking at the top 10 runs in Standard (and the strats weren't that homogenous when those runs were submitted), the fastest "Subway/Carlos" time i've seen there is a 4:17.2 and the slowest is a 4:20.0, this ammounts to a 2.8s difference (also, there's a difference in strats, i should point out). It's a resonable ammount, but only if we ignore the difference in strats used.
And even if other games have longer intros that would better justify their removal, maybe it's worth looking at those games and see how reset heavy they are compared to RE3R? Because if an intro is 2x shorter than the ones we are comparing, but we reset, say, 3x more in average than the runners of those other games, it evens out or even beats the time lost to intros, right? I honestly don't know those two speedruns you guys mentioned very well (Fallout 4 and RE7), so i'm not really sure how reset heavy both of those games are.
I think this is a worthwhile discussion to have.
I can admit the comparison to REHD was a stretch, it was at the time the only thing to come to mind. I will however mention that even though it’s only a small section where the mashing is required, the frequency of doing this section increases the more optimal your route gets and you end up resetting on bites that your fractions too late/early on the dodge timing, or the zombie doesn’t aggro until it’s too late.
I appreciate it’s kinda late to bring this up now but if I was running this from the start I would have brought this up sooner.
The tips for reducing strain are welcome, but with this type of injury you don’t really know until you feel the pain, and then once it’s there it’s staying, with anything else you do on top then further aggravating that injury.
As far as what time or when exactly the save should be I think that’s not really a discussion for me but I do agree with @vinev reasoning of looking at the top runners to calculate what/when it should be
Besides the small amount of stairs there's nothing button intensive in the beginning intro. If your resetting the intro so much that the small amount of mashing is hurting your hands your resetting to much. How would one even lose that much time in the intro to cause a reset? Besides a zombie dodge or 2 the intro is free. Its all movement. I personally dont see a reason to completely skip the intro of the game.
the intro to this game isn;t actually that bad. Yeah its annoying you have to play it again when you fuck up 5 minutes in but if you don't fuck up you wont have to replay the first 5 minutes again amirite?
Okay that was slightly funny @uhtrance. Not the most helpful, though.
Anyways, the people who seem to like the idea of skipping the intro don't seem to have ever ran a game with an actual bad intro. Honestly, it's just 5 minutes, and you're still actually doing stuff. I also received a good description from a Fallout 4 runner as to why they even made their no intro category, and it's nowhere CLOSE to "it's just boring". When you gain control after the first 4 minutes, you need to use traffic cones to clip yourself through walls and ceilings, and it's heavily reliant on Bethesda item physics. It also involves a specific glitch at the time of the category being discussed, where you would perform the "coverslide" when leaving Vault 111, a trick that is reliant on your computer performance, and the only consistency is to stand on the same pixel perfect spot every time. Most runs would die to this 9 and a half minutes in. Think about that, and then think about the 5 minutes you spend on subway, involving only good movement and timing, which doesn't even ensure your pb.
No one is saying the intro is going to ensure they PB, in fact the point is very much just that, it doesn't. For pretty much all skill levels it is essentially hold W for the vast majority of it. Sometimes you press dodge to squeeze some time save going into cutscenes or you press space/mouse click to run nemmy down.
Sure there are some extra movement stuff that you can do to squeeze more time save, but they're not run killers if you miss them.
Since most runners seem to want this, why not just do it? If the runners agree to it and they'd run it then what exactly is the harm in making it a category? If it turns out its not popular (which tbph I highly doubt) then get rid of it.
If you want a to see no intro, post below or like this. Lets at least gauge the interest before we just assume its a few lonely voices calling out into the dark.
You can't just say that "Most runners seem to want this" when only a few people have posted here. Also, unless I missed it, it's not been brought up in Discord either. Y'all need to stop making blanket statements based on a few comments in a forum post.
Yeah honestly I don't think most runners really care that much about the intro (in my opinion). I have been having some bad runs the last couple days which required me to reset a lot. So I have been playing the intro more than I'd like to admit. But its not that bad tbh. I think of it as part of the game and I personally would be annoyed if I skipped it cause I would feel like its not a real run. Idk just my 2 cents.
EDIT: To clarify I am saying most people (probably) have no problem running the apartment part of the game.
