I may be wrong, but I believe people already planned on doing this, and are modifying the demo timer to work with that.

Ayy we're trying :p

This has been rejected in the past - and I feel very strongly about rules or exceptions being made for unjustified/lazy reasons, especially if they compromise the definition and timing accuracy of the category.

I recommend to runners who don't have the patience to simply focus on practicing the parts of the run that you need to work on and minimize how often you are resetting especially early game. For the sake of practice, sure begin wherever you want. But let's not ruin the integrity of the leaderboards or pretend like you are doing something you're not. Please don't call it a full game speedrun if you are splitting your actions apart (or in this case, borrowing someone else's actions).

In the case that a bunch of runners want to do this, we can potentially create an option similar to Vault Save Yes/No that exists on Portal 1 leaderboards.

The trickiest part of this is determining how to accuratly time the run if you start at a save. Also, on average you are not going to get perfect first tick going to sleep and jumping so it's kind of unfair if you base your timing off the fastest theoretical beginning. There's gotta be some small penalty or addition of time to compensate for that.. maybe 0.5 sec?

Also, are we using the save point itself to measure the amount of time since the beginning of the game, or are we going to use the teleport at the chamber crashing open as a reference point for when to begin adding time to a predetermined intro length? I personally think using the teleport (or crosshairs reappearing, whichever is easier) and adding an offset to that is going to be more accurate from a timing perspective. Of course, I still think it's unfair if this offset assumes no time loss in the intro.

alright, boredom/impatient, however you feel about the intro. I'm just thinking about the best way to fulfill the need for people to skip the intro which does not introduce a run timing advantage. If a 0.5 does not mean a lot to you, then I take it you would be fine adding 0.5 extra for runs that use this save. Again, it's merely a way to simulate the time most full game runs would lose in the opening 4 minutes.

Why not look for a container ride skip Kappa

While this was (relatively) easy in Portal 2 (because you don't have to do anything in p1 vault) it's different in Portal 2.

In Portal 1 there is absolutely no way to waste time before the vault skip save. Well in P2 there would be.

And P1 is at a state where players do a lot more resets than in P2.

And adding this as a variable when it's not a thing yet really shouldn't happen.

Darkstreamer, you are right and the variable should be created only after we have more of a consensus about it, and once the timing method is agreed upon by more people.

Also I agree that there is a big difference between Portal 1 where no inputs are needed before the save (and there's no time to be lost) but in Portal 2 you need to perform a series of inputs, in which you can lose time and typically WILL lose a small amount of time.

The main arguments I have heard for allowing a segment: -The intro adds no value to the quality of a run -The intro takes away from runners' willingness to do runs/improve their times in the category -Any time lost in the intro is insignificant

The main arguments for not allowing: -By definition it is neither single segment nor a run of the full game -A segment with significant inputs and potential time loss should not be OK -There's a meaningful difference between pretending you did the intro in a reasonable amount of time and actually doing the intro -It introduces irregular timing concerns, such as potentially not using demo length and arbitrarily determining a reasonable intro length to append

Personally I feel like the arguments can be divided into a "do what is more convenient/fun" vs. "do what is more legitimate/in line with general speedrunning rules". An individual runner's values can lie more to one side or the other of this spectrum

Why not do a save just before you jump into the starting room? realistically your not going to lose any time in the parts before this jump, and this is the first opportunity to lose like 3 seconds or more.

I agree with znern, it is down to preference

This is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion, a lot of big speed games have some form of unskippable cutscene at the beginning, most notably Zelda games, and you don't see anybody skipping those, not to mention that this isn't even a cutscene but actual gameplay you're skipping.

I don't think the legitimacy of a run should ever be sacrificed due to an arbitrary factor such as "convenience". You might as well skip all the other waiting scenes in this game, just because one is at the beginning doesn't make it any more rational to skip it.

yea avetixz so you would lie more on the "do what is legitimate" side, where testicles12 lies more on the "do what is convenient/fun" side.

I think even with a lot of discussion it's hard to say if people will ever be convinced to switch their values either way... so if the number of runners on each "side" is approximately equal we'll have to have some form of compromise.

Personally I agree more with "do what is legitimate", because speedrunning has never been convenient or easy... it's supposed to be a challenge and that's part of what makes it fun

But then it's also, do you consider a 4 minute long wait to be a challenge? I guess there are pros and cons for both but I don't know if a compromise should be made. If we're on the hedge about it, it should just stay the same.

I feel like the "what is legitimate" issue shouldn't have such a strong impact unless you are running this game very seriously. Most of the runners are kinda just running this game (from what I can tell), so I feel that giving them the option to skip the cutscene at the cost of a penalty (it could probably even be 1 or more seconds since people who use it would probably be able to afford the time) is a very good idea to keep morale for this game up

I don't think the save should be allowed based on your time or rank or whatever - besides, Pero wants to use it and he's a top runner.

Let's make a poll of the following:

1. Your name and if you run the game
2. For/Against/Impartial to using a save at the end of the container ride (just before the chamber wall opens)
3. Your reason(s) for your choice
4. Any other comments/thoughts