For speedrunning I think not. 451 was mostly an upgrade for server side stuff. 436 was always the preferred version for online playing on the player side. If I remember I will look it up later but you should be fine on either

There should definitely be someone on the mod team who has a run in deleted scenes already. Prior to these past few months, this game was only ran for the tour duty portion; however, times have changed, and we, as a community, should adapt to this change.

I am in full agreement that somebody who actually has run deleted scenes and has knowledge of the run should be added to the mod team. It just makes sense that way.

A split would also work so long as mods are added to deleted scenes that know the run.

It looks like kirkq stopped checking this thread long ago. Maybe we should ask in the main forums somewhere?

If nobody else with a run volunteers, I can verify runs. I have never ran the Deleted Scenes DLC though. The rules are pretty straight forward for it, so it probably wouldn't be too difficult. Although I haven't submitted a run in a while, I do login to speedrun.com every couple of days to stay up to date with the games I run/used to run.

Might be better to mod someone with deleted scenes experience though if somebody else with a run on here speaks up.

This is interesting. Are the three of you part of another CSCZ community? CSCZDS has been dead for a few years on here (with the occasional random run here or there), and the tour of duty has been dead for about a year. All of a sudden there are a few of you popping up and submitting runs and posting on the forum.

Nice to see some interest in the game all of a sudden.

What is this mod exactly? Does it enable bunny hopping?

I am familiar with strafe jumping and bunny hopping as quake has the former and UT99 has the latter (an in-game glitch in ut99. was banned from most tournaments back in the day). I am aware that half-life 1+2 and portal 1+2 has a similar feature too. I always figured you probably could in CS as well as it is the same engine.

Oh, I thought we were talking about IL submissions that are just the IL and not a cut from the entire run. Retiming for each IL would be a pain, so an in-game timer does sound more reasonable when taken from an entire run. UT99's in-game timer actually rounds up and down depending on when you finish a map. Like ending a map at 28.7 will round it up to 29 iirc. I wonder if Quake's is similar in that way? It could reduce the amount of probable ties.

Dont you have to hit "start game" before starting the map? Cant it just be the same as any% timing then? Timer starts once you hit start, and time ends once you get the final frag? (I havent watched any of the IL runs so forgive me if im incorrect).

FPS's kind of fall into two categories: Objective/level completing, or DM/arena/bothunting.

Examples of Objective/level completing would be the call of duty series or the doom series. Basically FPS's where there are no set amount of kills or rounds. In order to proceed to the next map, you have to get to the end of the map you are currently on. There can be minor or major objectives that have to be completed to get to the end of the map, but it is still a "Start---->End" sort of scenario. Doom, CoD, Wolfenstein, time splitters series, and Halo are some examples of games that come to mind.

DeathMatch (DM) or bot hunting or rounds or whatever you want to call it is the Unreal Tournament and Quake III Arena style of play where you have to get to a certain Frag limit or kill all of the enemies on the opposite team a certain amount of times in order to move on to the next round and/or map. Unreal Tournament 99. Quake III arena, Quake III Team Arena, and the Counter-Strike games would fall into this category.

It depends on what you are looking for, and some FPS's can fall into both categories. Counter-Strike does have objectives (like rescuing hostages and disarming bombs), and UT99 has the domination, capture the flag, and assault game types that allow you to do a lot more than just fragging. I have done runs in Counter-Strike Condition Zero, all categories of UT99, and I am currently working on Quake III arena. All three of those games, even in their most competitive categories, still have room for improvement with regards to their various wr's. Like bullets said, find a game you like and try it out a bit or watch some other runs to see if they are your cup of tea.

Is that allowed in a run? You don't even have to surrender technically. You can just hit esc and go back to your saved game selection and select the current profile you are running. Then you can just select the map you were on. I don't see it being viable for easy or normal, but it may be useful in the harder difficulties. If your first round is going horribly (like you die in the first 6 seconds or so), then it may be quicker for you to just reset this way than to just sit there in spec the whole round praying for your bots to do their job (and we all know they wont anyways).

Could you just exit back to the main menu and go back in to your saved game and reset the map that way? Almost the equivalent of rebooting a console and continuing from that specfic saved game?

Nevermind. Here is the convo we had on my youtube vid. wat wat=mew. Youtube vid=

sheppardkiller2 hours ago (edited) Yeah but I'm not using the optimal strats to get to WR just yet but I can see how that can work but then again with that bug for round 1 if you manage to do a really nice run and have 2 or 3 maps have no bots spawn especially late game then it's just really fast but at least I dont have a split that I go over 3:30 in the entire run itself

BiGbOsSUT1 hour ago Okay, so you have the bots spawning dead thing too? I figured this wouldn't be allowed. Roger if you are staying up to this, I am going to make a forum post and ask about bots spawning dead or not spawning at all. This guy is right. There are no guides or explanations on speedrun.com for the rules or run, yet it is the only community that has runs for the game and a proper leader board.

BiGbOsSUT1 hour ago and he actually isn't the first to ask me. I was asked by someone else in another message board about rules, guides, etc. I think i'm going to make a thread or guide. I think new runners are seeing the empty community and are turning away from running the game.

sheppardkiller1 hour ago (edited) Well the thing is, the bots being dead on the very first round is a bug within the game which would be really difficult to fix and if we do have a fix on the bug by a very certain method, wouldn't that make the WR obsolete?

wat wat50 minutes ago well about the dead bots. as far as i know there is no fix for it. and i feel we cant just reset if it happens. tho i stoped a run where all bots were dead the first round in every single map.

i feel a single dead bot is fine. but if everyone is dead multiple times that is bad. we could always sv_restart 1 if everyone is dead. but this would mess up bot patterns so again not optimal.

wat wat47 minutes ago but we should definitely make some guides and rules for this. I would love for more people to run this game.

sheppardkiller44 minutes ago it would be awesome to get a dead speedrun game back to life, similar to how SHiFT_HD speedran Spongebob Squarepants Battle for Bikini Bottom back in april when only 1 active runner remained and actually started to get the game active again and it work AND he got the game to be shown at AGDQ (Awesome Games Done Quick) this year which was pretty awesome if you ask me. I think you got the best RNG for all the round 1 dead bots bug but idk why you would reset, but then again you would be really far ahead even though there isn't much competition

sheppardkiller41 minutes ago I really do want to have my run submitted but I never recorded it because my computer is out dated and when I record I have the worst time trying to distinguish around the horrible FPS that comes with it because of one screen recorder

wat wat37 minutes ago when it happens 100% of the time it isnt rng. its a bug. and i dont feel like its fair when a such op bug that we cant reproduce happens. i could have ran a shit run and wr'ed by so much. generally I dont want all bots to die in a round.

BiGbOsSUT21 minutes ago Do you play the steam version or the original cd version? I used to play and own the cd version way back when, and I don't recall the bots spawning dead like that, but it has been years. Now I play on the steam one. Dunno where my CD ended up (two disks iirc)

BiGbOsSUT17 minutes ago I may consider rerunning then as I was having to always reset due to dead bots., and I got pretty bored. If there is a fix for it, or if there is a hard and fast rule for it, I will consider rerunning it in the future. But the rule has to be pretty straight forward. Like a finite number not like "one or two is okay, but more IDK", that would be too confusing. Something straight forward like "3 max" or "25% of a team spawning dead max" or "not a whole team can spawn dead".

wat wat12 minutes ago (edited) BiGbOsSUT I would say max 2 dead as a general rule. and maybe be a litte relaxed about all dieing once per run(or just say that the main rule can be broken once per run). just so random rng doesnt kill to many runs.

BiGbOsSUT6 minutes ago so max 2 dead with one rule break? I could work with that. Would just have to be prepared. Look at our two times on easy. If I spawn in one of the last maps with all the bots dead, that alone COULD (not necessarily definite) alone would have gone faster than the 44 38 you posted (assuming I haven't spawned with more than 2 dead prior to this round). Everyone would have to be okay with that happening then because it does not technically break any of the rules but is kind of lame.

sheppardkiller30 seconds ago Well I would be fine with that but I also made an interesting discovery that not only does the enemy bots die without dying but the same happens to your teammates but this might be a very rare occasion and it happened on Italy in my PB run but it didn't affect the round too much except I didn't have my high skilled bot to help out plus what if someone already had all the bots die at the same time early in the run and at the very last map it happens again and they're on WR pace, why would you reset?

BiGbOsSUT1 second ago As of right now you wouldn't I guess. But if the rule is updated to anything like what mew said above, then if it already happened and it happened again you'd have to reset. Just all depends what the rule is if it changes.

BiGbOsSUT1 second ago I'm going to bed though for now. I had already made a post asking on the forum on speedrun.com. I will just update it with this convo from here. I'm okay with limitations. IDK if anyone else would respond, but we could just wait and see if anybody has anything else to say? Otherwise Mew really has the most say as he is a mod and has been running the game the longest.

Hello,

So I stopped running this game a few months ago. One of the main reasons I stopped running this game is because bots spawned "dead" for me on certain maps. I could literally just start up a map and the entire terrorist team would spawn dead. I figured this was some bug, and that it would not be allowed, so I had to always reset my runs. People are not really active here, so I never bothered asking.

Does anybody know how to fix this problem? It wouldn't be allowed in a run right? I mean seriously. I one time spawned on 5-1 with the entire terrorist team dead. Big time save if allowed, but completely random.

I ask because there is another runner who started commenting on my youtube vid and he mentions this: "If you have to do a really nice run and have 2 or 3 maps have no bots spawn especially late game then it's just really fast".

So if somebody could actually check in that would be nice. You may be seeing it in the future if more people decide to run the game.

Thats what ive been doing as of late. I've been uploading my runs to youtube and submitting them via that way. Your set up is going to balance with what you desire as well. If you want a higher interraction with more possible community support and building your own live stream channel and such, then you may want to try streaming at low quality. If you dont care too much about chat interaction and such, then you might want to do it the way you stated. You can still participate in forums, irc, discord, etc, so you arent completely alienated from the community.

I have decent hardware, but I only run/practice for short amounts of time, and it is a bit sporadic due to my jobs, so i just find it easier to record and let the videos upload overnight.

Yeah, I was going to say the exact same thing. The practice session has a tab all the way to the right which makes it very easy to manipulate the bots you play against. IL's are not a bad idea though. Could create them for the ladder maps.

There probably is not enough activity for them to separate the games. First off I think splitting the games requires more work than it sounds (probably a direct request to an admin as well as moving the run(s) and such), and second, this site tends to do things by activity/user necessity. There is only one run for deleted scenes, and the cscz scene is pretty quiet. The mods also haven't been active on the speedrun.com site (check their profiles) excluding mewyou, and he is only active because my run beat his wr at the time. Took me pming all the cscz mods on twitch after about two weeks to get anyone to come back.

I'm pretty sure no admin would split a game that would make one game have only one runner and the other game have like 5. I do completely agree with the idea though. And ILs could be really nice. But again, they probably won't happen unless people start submitting IL runs (aka more activity in this scene).

Thanks Cyborg!

Yeah there are a ton of settings for each render that could be making his game stutter. I am pretty sure that it is safe to assume that discrepancies between different load times are primarily due to having an improperly calibrated UT install. And, I thought/expected the exact same thing Jonte. I am going to try to up the fps on software rendering and d3d; however, both renders have issues concerning speed and consistency. I want to do that and play with a few more ini settings.

Having examples of proper ini's in the resources is probably a good idea actually!

Also, kind of going back to one of the original questions in this thread regarding versions and such, mmsrhino's and Dein's Novice full-game runs are the GOTY version. If you go into like 10 minutes or so into each run you can see they have the arcane temple map, and that is a GOTY edition exclusive. Them having GOTY switched on also helps to explain the huge time difference as it has a few more maps overall.

I am considering trying out a 4x4x4x4x4 or a 3x3x3x3x3 run. Basically do 3 or 4 maps in each category (4 would= all of the challenge maps). I am pretty sure you could just tweak the user ini save game files to have all of the ladders unlocked (challenge ladder won't unlock unless you beat all of the maps in all of the other ladders normally). Any thoughts on that? It would be like a shorter version of the full-game run. Just a taste of each category.

Edit: 3x3x3x3x4 may be the best of both worlds. Do the three maps in each ladder which would normally unlock the next category, and then do all 4 challenge matches to win the game.

(Another post to break the wall of text). Another thing I found:

I could find absolutely no way to eliminate the lag in the utmenu after you finish a map on the ladder. You know how you can't instantly click the right arrow to move onto the next map? That lag. Yes, you can hit the back arrow and then go forward, or you can hit esc and then reenter the ladder and proceed to the next map. I mean that there is no setting in the Unreal Tournament or User inis that allow you to just simply click the right arrow without doing any of the above and without a 3 or so second lag. It is either hit the back arrow or hit the esc key for now. This is the same for when you unlock a new ladder (if you are doing a full-game run for example). Usually there is a short animation that shows the unlocking of the next ladder. You can only skip that if you hit esc right when you see the animation start. There is no ini setting that instantly skips this animation.

Sorry for the wall(s) of text. If you ask, I try to deliver. I know no one runs it, and there is a chance nobody will run it again, but this info is here if anyone needs it now. My original opinion about going by In-game time isn't correct I think. It SEEMS that if you can have the settings set so your pc can run ut smoothly, then the load times will be pretty similar. Idk for sure though.

Sorry for the delay, I have completed enough testing and comparisons that I feel comfortable making a post.

First, I created a keybind so that whenever I hold down a specific key I would enter ghost mode (it is a cheat), and whenever I let go of the key it would deactivate ghost mode. I used this bind to let me cruise through high speed. I did this 5 times for a series of renders to see if specific renders could activate the load times at the end of maps. I chose high speed because it is the longest load time due to the helicopter animation, so, any possible variance in load times would be easier to see instead of another map with a shorter load time. I timed the load times using live split, and I then averaged out the 5 runs to get a decent representation of the load time for that specific render:

[center]software rendering: 13.89s, ~20 fps d3d: 13.92s, ~60 fps d3d8: 13.96s, ~120 fps d3d9: 13.93s, ~160 fps d3d10: 13.94s, ~160 fps OpenGL: 13.94s, ~160 fps[/center]

The difference was minimal (which kind of surprised me). 1/100's of seconds could possibly even be human error. I played around with various texture settings and game settings, but the average was still right around 13.9Xs. What got interesting was when I pulled up the three current assault videos that are listed on the site. I found some discrepancies between the load times of each player:

So, Column A are the loads for the map. There is a load between Offense and Defense (Frigate O for example), and a load between Defense and the game menu (Frigate D for example). All of the times are in seconds, and the times represent the time to load between O-D and D-Menu. mmsrhino and I have very similar load times between Offense and Defense and between the defense and game menu. NotBaDocha has some slower speeds. The rows highlighted in blue are load times where he is over a second slower than either of us for that particular load time. I calculated the total load time for each of us in Row 15, and you can see that there is about a 6 second difference between ocha's overall load time and the two of us. There are other differences, but they are smaller for the most part.

Six seconds in an assault run can be a lot. It does not look like it right now as there are only three recorded times, but right now I have a pb of 6:58 Real Time (video is pending right now). My best ever possible with my current route would probably be 6:50-6:51. Six seconds could end up being a lot if other people ever decided to run the game.

The issue LOOKS to be that ocha's computer kind of struggles in his assault run. You can see that it is a bit choppier than mine and rhino's. I discussed this with a friend who played UT online even longer than me, and we THINK (can't really know for sure) that the struggling indicates that his FPS fluctuates. We think this fluctuation causes the load times to take even longer. If you ever want to check your fps in UT you can open up the console and type "timedemo 1" without the quotes. His FPS may be fluctuating due to many reasons: trying to run too high of a resolution. trying to run too high of graphics settings, possibly trying to run UT99 and a streaming program at the same time, running too many programs at once etc. There are a lot of reasons as to why it could be problematic, and I don't even know if it is possible to know for sure that the fluctuating fps is the problem.

The final thing regarding load times I'd like to mention is seen on Row 17 of the above graphic. The difference between Real Time and In-game time do not line up with the difference in load times for each player. Rhino's total load time is less than mine; however, my difference between real time and in-game time is lower than his. NotBaDocha has the highest total load time by a lot, but he has a better difference between Real TIme and In-game time than mmsrhino. I believe this is due to the combination of the Total Load Times (which are not counted in the In-game times) and each player's menuing (choosing the next map to play and also not counted in In-game time). If you watch the vid, my menuing seems to be the fastest as I hit esc and quickly click my mouse onto assault and then to the right arrow to select the next map asap. When you add each player's individual menuing times (which I did not calculate) with their Total Load Times, it comes out to the different order you see on Row 17.

Just posting to let you two know I haven't forgotten about this. Had to work and such when I got back from vacation. In my small bits of free time I have grinded down the assault and dm runs a bit. I am also somewhat working on a novice full-game run. I am hoping to check out different renders and graphic settings to see if there can be some manipulation of the overall load time. Hoping to post here with my results, submit a few runs, and tweak my guide a bit by this Sunday.

Yes, I am aware of the dependence on the maps. I don't think there is a way to not notice the long ending at the end of high speed lol. I, too, was wondering if the different renders mattered as well as any graphical settings. It could just be left to that. I have always played with the latest version of opengl available.

On a complete side note: I created a guide for turning on and off the goty maps in the ladder. The guide also includes an explanation of how you can activate certain ladders without playing through the game. It is a not too complicated process of editing the user ini. Thought I would notify this thread since some of the original posts were about turning on and off the GOTY maps. Let me know if there are any issues:

http://www.speedrun.com/ut99/guide/1v96k

Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about. It can hang for different pc's for different amounts of time at the end of each map as far as I know. There was a dm or assault vid from another runner I was looking at in particular, but I cannot remember which one. I do not have time tonight to do comparisons, and tomorrow, I am leaving to go out of the country for six days, so I can do the comparisons in about a week. Maybe it just seems that way to me (and the others I used to play with). To be fair, I have never created or seen hard evidence for it. It definitely feels that way though.

I'm sort of mixed on the whole thing. In-Game timer is extremely limited with rounding, and it would not catch someone making a mistake clicking through the menu. However, if there is hard evidence that loading times differ, than Real Time would not be fair imo.

It seems like you all have it figured out though in a way that works for the few people who run it. I do not mean to try to change your system.