Recently there's been requests to add level packs as categories for this game. It's great that people are making packs and people want to run them, but I'm not sure if adding every requested level pack as categories on the main SMM game would be a good idea.
My suggestion would be to make a new game on speedrun.com that is entirely dedicated to SMM level packs. This way we can keep the main game focused on official content and also have leaderboards for the level packs. If we decide to go with this idea, I don't really want to be the one who manages the level pack leaderboards, someone or some other people would have to do that. If anyone is up to do that, you should request the new game to be added on speedrun.com. (If this happens, Super Warp World would be moved on to the new game)
Please post any thoughts or other ideas you have here, it'd be nice to get some discussion on this.
i requested a new game to speedrun.com called super mario maker and then the title. not sure that format would be the correct version. i think honestly it would be easier to find if everything was here, but i also understand the concept - it literally makes unlimited games to curate. ultimately, so long as there was a person added on to curate the game as a mod, it might be okay, since that would virtually be what happened when a new game was added.
ultimately, for my game i'd be willing to curate runs of it personally.
so i guess we can see if speedrun.com accepts my submission of a new game, and if not i think that means we will have to go with adding full games here. i guess there could be criteria it would have to meet if it gets added to super mario maker.
I think it should really depend on the quantity of "games" we expect people to run in the future. My gut says that it should be handled how SMW handles romhacks, which is to add them as separate games that link back to the original. However, SMW obviously has a tad more than one or two romhacks these days so it would be insanity trying to cram them all on the original page which makes that necessary. In two years of SMM I've been aware of about 4-5 completed "games" within it and only heard of people speedrunning two, if that number isn't expected to grow by much then we could have one of those "misc" drop down tabs on the leaderboard that ends up containing all of these games. It makes it easier for people interested in speedrunning things in SMM to actually find "games" with communities but has the downside that if the high visibility of Super Warp World sparks a large wave of these things (which I hope it does) there might be more work later in separating all the games back out into their own pages.
So the optimistic path and the one that somewhat follows precedent is new game entries but I don't know how much more work that is than just maintaining what may end up being 5-8 extra runs here.
What I feel like is that we should create a separate extra categories game and include all the level packs in there. I feel like there would be too many to include them on the main game page.
Alright my request got rejected by speedrun. Here is what they said - "Your request was rejected. If Mario Maker Mods want to request this they can. We dont really want separate boards for all sorts of levels within the game". So what is the next step? Also, I am interested in modding for specifically this Level Pack until it gets sorted out.
Where does it stop then Wombat? I think thats the issue. Warp World was a 6 month long planned project built around making a speedgame from the worlds top creators. There is no shortage of "level packs" out there. If each where added, this board would be 100 miles long. What would 100% vs any% be of your pack? Who is currently playing it? Is there demand for it? Has anyone come up with strats?
I'm one of the people running Wombat's game and can vouch that it is actually a solid run, we're still finding skips and optimizing movement to the extent that while it is far from a "solved" game there is a very obvious different between the routes a speedrunner and a casual player will take. It's also been in development for over a year, his levels were the first ones that introduced me to idea that actual speedrunning could be done in SMM that wasn't just "try to figure out the exact inputs I used to upload this 40 second level." I'd love to see the community for this game grow, we had a 4-way race the other week but I'm not sure how active it has been since then and without the ability to gain exposure anywhere it will probably fizzle and die. And that's pretty sad, right?
What's the difference between something like this and a romhack anyway? I'm a huge fan of you and Dode and love everything you're doing for that community. Dram 2 has four names on the leaderboard though, Panga World has three and Kaizo Mario World 3 has literally just Dode. Clearly we can agree that those runs have a place on this site, right? And wouldn't it be awesome to promote similar pseudogames from within the SMM community? You say 100 miles long like that's a bad thing but that's exactly the world I've wanted to live in since getting the game and am ecstatic that people are finally making it a reality.
I know you're a busy dude but check out the vod of a much better runner than me tearing through this game during our race if you have the time, it might change your mind as to the legitimacy of it as a run (although maybe if you aren't already familiar with the levels a lot of the skips may not be obvious without commentary):
Poo, I understand the issues with accepting every level pack as a speed run category and honestly thats why I am here to try and help figure out what qualifications a pack would need to become a category.
My Ocarina of Time remake level pack was a concept i started work on even prior to the release of Mario Maker and worked on for 2 years. Ive had the goal of submitting it to speedrun.com in the mario maker boards for about a year, and started the process after identifying there was a desire for it to go up by the players. My level pack is a total of 29 levels for any%, and a 30th level for 100% which is a boss guantlet of the games boss remakes encountered throughout the game. I know you guys worked hard to make Super Warp World what it is and I certainly respect that it is in here, and I think that it qualifies to be in. I just ask for the same consideration.
That being said, to qualify I propose that every map pack made must have at least one person willing to curate the game as a mod for that pack, to keep the strain off of those curating the original game material. I also propose that there is at least 3 people who have runs of the game to submit. That's similar to what speedrun.com needs for a unique game. Other qualifiers or modifications to mine, input welcome, as i'm sure there are some.
Additionally my response to my request from speedrun.com came back with if a mod from Super Mario Maker were to request a separate map pack category, they would be more inclined to add it. So there's that to consider as well.
I've played well over 10,000 courses and streamed maker exclusively for about 2 years. To echo Cyan's point I've only come across a handful of complete "games" inside maker and none of them were anywhere near as polished as Wombat's. Honestly I don't really think there'd be a huge list of level packs being added now as maker seems to be dying in my opinion. Regardless if that's true or not, if the primary concern is just about keeping the market from over saturation then some form of very strict quality control or submission requirements would be necessary.
As far as strats go there are a plethora of them and we've only just begun. The current ones we have take the game from a casual 4-5 hour play through down to just shy of 1 hour and 30 minutes. I also believe the demand is there seeing as how the game already has 10+ runners. During a race the stream hosting it had around 150 viewers which is a considerable amount for a channel that has a normal viewership of 10-20.
At the end of the day I can honestly say that Wombat's level pack is truly an amazing and unique gaming experience that really brings out the best in everything Mario Maker can and should be. The fact that maker is populated with 95% uninspiring and flat out garbage stages is all the more reason why things of this nature should be highlighted and welcomed into the community with open arms.
Vallu, its been a month since this topic was posted and I wanted to see what your thoughts are in this conversation. The original idea you had for making a new "game" for all level packs is an option, it just would need to be requested to speedrun.com by a current moderator of Super Mario Maker for it to be considered.
If that is not a desired route I was curious on your opinion on my qualification system I suggested. What qualifications did you use to have Super Warp World, for instance?
Super Warp World is no more official than any other SMM fan game. It we're going to add one, then there at least needs to be a qualification system to adding others. Like what about the game the Facebook community made? It was a long, drawn-out 4-5 month deal. It has a 8 main worlds and a special world as well. I would love to speedrun it and have it be official.
There's even been a few really well done games from the Reddit community that seem pretty large scale.
What if we created a new Mario Maker gamepack board even @Wombat? I think that really covers a lot of it. I totally agree that Warp World isnt any more official, and didn't mean to come off as a butt in my first post, which re reading I totally did. I was more trying to say "we gotta let the mods breathe a bit" and didn't come off like that.
With that said, I think the demand from runners is the most important. No game goes up on sr.com until someone submits it and demonstrates that there could be a community for it.
Hey Poo,
Thanks for your response and clarity. I agree. That is essentially what I suggested, but speedrun.com needs one of the Mario Maker Moderators to create it for them to accept it, and I think it would be an elegant system for it. Essentially, anything to keep the pressure off the moderators here, and benefits the Mario Maker community I am for. If one of the moderators could submit for the new board, and we could perhaps get the ball rolling from there. I would love to help in any way that I can as well.
We have our answer!
https://www.speedrun.com/smmlp
If people could start porting over their times in super warp world, we will get get it up and running. Any mods for SMM who'd like to come on to SMMLP let us know!
