There are functional differences between playing on a keyboard vs playing with a controller (in particular, with feathers). Additionally, there are often questions from people starting to speedrun about whether top players use controllers or use a keyboard. For these reasons, I think it would be beneficial for the leaderboards to show what input method people used for the PC platform, as this is the one with the most variance.

This could be achieved through multiple ways, such as:

1. Introducing a new variable (in line with Game Version and Platform) that specifies the type of input (Controller vs Keyboard vs Other). This could also be more specific (Xbox vs Playstation vs Switch vs keyboard vs other).

2. Split the PC platform into PC - Controller and PC - Keyboard. Possibly include PC - Other for more unusual input methods (). Additionally, we may want to keep PC for backwards compatibility with the current leaderboards, but enforce that it is not chosen for future submitted runs.

I would suggest implementing 1), but just using the simple options (Controller vs Keyboard vs Other). I think this is a simple solution that has clear backwards compatibility. Additionally, it allows weird cases where a console player uses a keyboard or something.

What do people think about this? Personally I think it is worth the effort, but I can see it being slightly more work for submitting runs and verifying. To me it seems like this information would be most useful for new runners, as they can make an informed decision about what type of input method they want to use.

The only significant difference is feathers so it seems like more work that it’s worth to edit the 500+ current runs. I could see it as a possibiltity for future runs being submitted.

Some controllers whether dpad or analog give the same results as keyboard feathers. It shouldn't matter what input is used, and feathers alone shouldn't demand a split or even specification imo.

Also, in some cases keyboard has an advantage over controller. Try holding an up diagonal against a wall and climb on analog. You need an angle pointing higher than usual to climb, even if your direction would be a diagonal dash. With controllers that have full analog support, the angles chosen need to be extremely specific, and there are more than 8 results depending on the situation. Find an input method that works for you, even if you're Peekingboo, and use it.

as someone who's part of the minority that plays with keyboard, i completely disagree with this decision.

my major concern with this is that someone who looks at the leaderboards would assume that a certain method of input gives an distinct, notable advantage, when this is entirely not true.

i also agree with the fact that this would make submission process just a tad bit more inconvenient than it needs to be. i also foresee people meming the submissions, and people meming over meme input methods that should be included.

however, i do think it is interesting to see what input method players play on. i'm sure many players would be supportive if you'd like to find this information out other ways, i.e. creating a survey among top players.

I think having statistics on input methods would be interesting, but I'm not certain if the leaderboard is the correct place to gather that information. There is a lot of grey area on input devices that would be hard to cover with the options available (variables), and forcing it onto submissions will end up complicating the verification and submission process with little benefit. Optional variables, as in players can choose themselves if they want to select any value (or even define their own value) in that variable, are a thing on speedrun.com and I can see that being a decent solution, but even then it might create more clutter than what it's worth for. Also similar to what Msushi mentioned, tying input methods to a objective ranking like the leaderboards might mislead people into thinking that certain methods are better or worse than others, and I'm not certain if we want to support that kind of culture/mindset of discouraging people from playing the way they want to play.

Thanks for the feedback. Some thoughts:

I definitely don't think it's worth editing 500+ runs for this! My suggestion is to make sure that future runs have the information, while leaving the existing leaderboards unchanged. As more runs get submitted, it will slowly be populated.

I also didn't claim keyboards were at a disadvantage to controller, rather that there were functional differences, with feathers being the best example. As Jumpyluff brings up, using analog is very painful in a lot of situations. Additionally, I would say it is way easier to do multi key combinations on keyboards, as you can use more fingers easier. So overall there are advantages to both.

In respect to the concern about player's thinking one input method has an advantage over another, two things:

1. Currently in the top 5, 2 players use keyboard (Fladervy, Msushi), while the other 3 use controllers (TGH, buhbai, OddBod). I'm not sure about the top 10 or further (For the next 5 people, only Psyched had an input display and was using controller). However, it seems like keyboard and controller are well enough represented among the best players at the moment that most people will not assume one gives an advantage.
2. In the case where say all runners in the top10 used the same type of input method, I would claim that it is quite likely that that input method does give some type of advantage, however small. There's a lot of nuance here, as group-think may factor into it, along with ease of setup, however at some point the empirical evidence that the top players are using one type of input probably indicates it has a slight advantage.

In terms of meming the submission and meme input methods, I would say keep it very simple (Keyboard vs Controller vs Other), and then let me people meme it if they want. The majority of players will be honest, and it doesn't affect the rankings. If someone wants to use an unusual input method and claims it is a controller/keyboard, let them. It won't change anything in the big picture. In terms of people petitioning for a unique input method to be its own variable, require them to have 10 or so runs by different people using that method submitted to the leaderboard.

Finally, on the topic of doing a survey or similar method of finding out what input methods top players use, I feel like that's a good idea to do if this doesn't go through. However as far as I see it, having a living survey (the leaderboards) is a much better way to capture the community consensus. Additionally, having it tied to ranks lets yourself set minigoals (I want to be the top 10 keyboard/controller player! I want to be the best esoteric input method player!) that would be very hard/impossible with a survey.

Thanks again for listening.