I spoke with Alice briefly, and it looks like the most promising method currently use is the "butterfly" click method where you alternate clicking the mouse button with your index and middle fingers in a way that flutters emulating butterfly.

Internal to the PC controls for the game and without any 3rd party software or changing away from fairly normal system drivers, it is possible to setup 3 simultaneously active click controls. 1 has to be assigned to a controller compatible to the game, but 2 can be Set up for keyboard/mouse.

Has anyone tested the internal cooldown of clicking in the game during levels? Depending on the cooldown, there are alternative setups to the butterfly click method that could be faster - either by utilizing a dual controller setup or by butterflying with one hand and rolling buttons on another controller. Theoretically you could have up to four fingers engaged in firing action at any given time.

Legally speaking what are the rules here? I know the forum posts surrounding autoclickers have weighed wanting to keep PC and console competitive, but it's clear there's built in advantage of using mouse/keyboard setup vs controller without considering the multiple shoot buttons. And PC version allows you to use multiple shoot buttons at the same time internal to the game itself.

Is the ruling we are only allowed to use 1 shooting button per playthough to keep Console and PC more competitive? Are we allowed to use mutliple controllers as developers intend? To what degree are we allowed to remap our keyboard? This game could be setup for handicap controllers that would allow rolling click method of multiple assigned buttons. Would we be allowed to remap buttons for a rolling method of clicking?

If we are allowed multipel controllers/buttons on PC as devs intend, it almost makes me wonder if they would be more competitive if we allowed hardware turbo controllers to make the difference in clicking methods between PC and Console mute. But that has the downside of reducing the skill ceiling of the game for both, so I could see why we wouldn't want to prioritize that over making the platforms more even.

'---

Sorry, bit of a ramble- TLDR: I need rulings on

Multiple PC shoot buttons as devs intend?

Utilizing multiple controllers as devs intend?

Remapping keyboard as keyboard manufacturerss intend (but prolly not devs)?

Disability Controllers?

Analog Turbo Controllers?

Has anyone measured the internal cooldown of shooting action?

Are the leaderboards open to emulator runs? I'm interested in attempting to run the game, but maybe not if I have to go get new hardware. I'd be willing to run on any specific emulator/settings required. But currently i've been playing on Dolphin. Mabye with a designator that says if the run was on PC or console? That's what the Legend of Dragoon community I've been running in has been doing.

I miscounted, this was 5 optionals total: 1 guard, 1 ghostship, 1 corrupted valley chrm skip fail, 2 death frontier insects. I think getting this down to 2 is a very reasonable goal. This could have been a 10:10 if I only got 2 optionals.

lavitz wasnt poisoned* i messed up bale by buying as if he was on accident and had to fix.

Are there full character stat tables anywhere?

Want to route out something, but the LoD wiki just has stats for 10, 20, 30 etc level and not like all the levels. Has someone written out all the body stats of the characters at different levels?

DuckStation does not have the option to toggle a turbo button like console does. So I asked a mod if it was okay to write a script that allows me to toggle turbo and was told if it is just to do turbo it should be fine. But I'd like a consensus. Also would like to give information to future emulator players on how to do this.

So I wrote a crude autohotkey script.


In autohotkey v2 (https://autohotkey.com/) you can create a new script, copy and paste the following code. Compile. Then run the resulting .exe to run the hotkey in the background. In order to end the script, kill it in the task tray. 

![](/static/blob/1n8k79wn.png)

```
z::
{
Send "{x down}"
} 
```


In order to understand the code, you have to understand how keyboard punches usually work. A command is sent to your System from your keyboard's driver whenever you press a key down (called a down press) and whenever you release a key on the keyboard (called an up-press).


While the script is running, whenever I hit "z" on my keyboard, the down press on my keyboard for "x" is also sent to my computer system without an accompanying up-press. Causing it to be seen by my computer as held down. I then set up Duckstation's autofire to work on the "x" button (Autofire4 below). 

![](/static/blob/3nv1lg8n.png)

In order to release the turbo, I simply press and release the x key on my keyboard. This sends my system an x down press (which it already has), plus an x up press which causes my system to no longer see x as held down.

Put simply when I press z, I am putting a rubber-band around the button i use for turbo. When I press x, I'm taking it off.



There are a number of benefits to setting it up this way.

1. This game is insanely long and I need to go to the bathroom. Toggle-able turbo buttons allow for more frequent and longer break periods during times console players would normally be able to.

2.  It reduces the wear and tear on a controller since you are no longer holding the turbo button in some of the places console players do not need to.

3. Unlike analog turbo buttons used by consoles, this setup uses duckstation's internal turbo button. What I mean by this, is analog turbo buttons do the auto-firing internal to the devices firmware and drivers. AFAIK, consoles and LOD do not support auto-firing. This means different controllers will have different turbo rates. This script does not attempt to emulate that - instead it uses duckstation's internal auto-fire feature which is more consistent, verifiable by mods and already allowed by emulator users.

4. The actual buttons can be easily modified to taste. Just replace the "z" and the "x" with the hotkeys you want in the script.

5. This requires the same number of inputs as an analog controller auto-fire, and requires more inputs than holding an auto-fire button as is currently available to the relevant categories. 



Notable issues do exist and I want those to be transparent. 

1. Different autohotkey scripts could be used for more complex inputs to give an actual advantage. Allowing this script does not stop this, however, as it already easy to use autohotkey without any disclosure. Even consoles are not immune to this issues as programmable controllers do exist.

2. There is a notable delay while using autohotkey. This means this will mainly be useful for long dialogues, not for things like throwing magic items where a specific % is a target.

3. Autohotkey is not how the game is intended to be played. Although neither is a turbo button supported by firmware or drivers. Where we draw the line is obviously going to be an arbitrary decision made by the community. 

4. Autohotkey is global. Which means while it is on, your system will just keep holding down x whenever you press z. If you are trying to type, you will need to pause the script.



I would like to see how the wider community feels about this. The main benefit to letting this happen is allowing for breaks similar to console players, but it's easy to think of that reduction of breaks as a "trade-off" for using an emulator as opposed to something that should be eliminated to create as similar a gaming experience as possible. I am obviously biased as the only current emulator runner. I would honestly be fine if this was only allowed for emulator-only leaderboards like 99%, especially since there are 10 hour periods where there are no cutscenes. But I would obviously prefer to use this for any% as well if mods are fine with it.

As for moderating, I would suggest that the script be displayed alongside the emulator settings. 
