Hello, FORCES Moderators!
Me and some other top runners by the likes of (Ryan and InfiNate: Retired) had a pretty lengthy and interesting conversation regarding the inclusion of Wispon-Exclusive IL misc. categories. We all thought that it might be a fun idea to add Wispon categories as they will add variety to the game and will (by proxy) motivate other players who may not have much experience using what is.. Arguably; The most integral part of any IL run which is (The Drill; of course), and we all expressed a common sentiment that adding Wispon-Exclusivity for every level individually would certainly allow for many interesting strategies as opposed to; Drill Spam which has become a widely-abused meta to get records on individual levels which would otherwise be impossible whilst using another Wispon, and this would also open up the path to many inactive players and/or current runners who were previously uncomfortable with the current meta to come forward and start submitting runs with a wide variety of strategies and will also serve as a means for attracting more players to run this game thus allowing one to build a speedrunning career upon this game, add more support to the community and finally, to keep this game we all know and love alive for generations to come. :)
Had a look at site functionality to see how feasible this idea is and yeah it's doable. I wouldn't make it a full category, since categories can only be applied to all stages at once resulting in a ton of empty boards (the Super Sonic problem)
What I CAN do however is make them subcategories, since those can be applied to singular stages. I'd have to make a seperate one for every stage, but considering it's just Avatar stages that's doable (it'd just take me some time). Here's how that would look:
On the level overview page, only the top times in the main subcategory would be shown, which would be "Any". In this case that's actually preferable, since it doesn't clutter the overview with tons of categories. So yeah, definitely doable from a technical standpoint.
I'll check with Sayuri just in case I'm overlooking something, in the meantime get a collection of ILs ready to show interest and post them here. Preferably from multiple runners. You could gather them in a google spreadsheet or something.
Yeah just link the spreadsheet here so that everyone can see it and post in this thread if they have something to add :)
After discussing it with Sayuri a bit I will say: we're a little bit worried about runs of certain wispons being just... majorly unpopular (like Cube). Two solutions: 1. y'all make sure every stage is covered with multiple runs before the boards are even made or 2. we start out only adding more interesting wispons and then expand as soon as interest in other wispons grows enough.
But hey we're still in the collection phase, so we'll see how things progress from here.
@CriticalCyd the second option would kinda be like the “All Avatar/Classic Stages” to the “All Modern Stages”, right?
Sorta? It would essentially work the same way that Skills/No Skills works for certain Sonic Generations IL's: https://www.speedrun.com/sonic_generations/Green_Hill#Modern
They both have their own boards, but only the Skills times appear in the stage overview: https://www.speedrun.com/sonic_generations/individual_levels
@CryticalCyd
Thanks for the response Cyd and also. I would like to add - Ryan, Nuh, InfiNate, and I discussed the possibility for this to be applied to the Tag-Team as well since they’re applicable to the stage itself because of the avatar. I hope this isn’t too much of a hassle and we also probably should’ve made it clear from the start that we wanted the Tag-Team stages in the first place. so due to our delay in clarification, we wouldn’t be too surprised if the Tag-Team stages aren’t doable anymore. Please consider this and thank you.
Cool to see other wispons getting attention. It would be interesting to see how skilled runners play these stages with wispons other than Drill, and it would be easier to find these runs with subcategories. I like the proposed ruleset. My current ILs on the leaderboards that use wispons other than Drill are: Spaceport - Burst Prison Hall - Burst Arsenal Pyramid - Lightning Park Avenue - Cube Aqua Road - Lightning Capital City - Asteroid Red Gate Bridge - Void Guardian Rock - Hover Null Space - Lightning Imperial Tower - Void Final Judgement - Cube Death Egg Robot - Void Fire Cannon 1 - Lightning Reverse Block 1 - Void
I can make sure the subcategories apply to both Normal and Super Sonic yeah, it's a simple setting fortunately.
So your choice really. If you're unsure I'll probably start out with just Normal and if the desire for Super is there later down the line I can switch it for those stages ezpz.
I'll try to find some time this weekend to create the subcategories btw, ruleset seems good and there's some really motivated people here.
I'll start with Burst, Lightning, Void and Asteroid. Not too worried about those getting interest.
Not sold on Cube and Hover as of yet, but I can add those easily later down the line, so if you have runs of those at any point you can post them in this thread.
Drill won't get its own category of course, since it already dominates the "Any Wispon" subcategory anyway :)
Agree with Ryan’s statement - Definitely would be interesting to see Imperial Tower: Hover
Noted! I'll add it for that stage then. If people end up not running certain wispons I'll just remove those options on that stage.
Alright I've added the subcategories to all the relevant stages (any stage that features Avatar)
I've decided to go a different approach when it comes to the wispons however: I'm giving every single one a trial run. As of right now, they all have a subcategory on every single stage.
I will give all of them a chance to develop an interest and check in every now and then to see what's going on. If needed I will then delete the boards retro-actively if one of the following is true:
- It is empty or only has 1 run for a long time
- The strats don't actually make note-worthy use of the chosen wispons (example: a tag-team stage that relies purely on Sonic or Aqua Road that runs the risk of just being nothing but water slides)
- The boards have few 2-3 runs and have been inactive for such a long time that it seems like a waste of space (this one will take a very long time don't worry)
This is very much an experimental way of doing things from my end, but I can't expect y'all to post runs of every single stage+wispon combo before making the boards, so I figured I'd give it a chance
Kinda missed the part where you said yes to those. Added them for now, though again I'm skeptical they'll do well.
