Hey Firefalcon,

I see 4 runs you've submitted that have been rejected recently (in order from oldest to newest): https://www.speedrun.com/Celeste/run/ywp28x0z https://www.speedrun.com/Celeste/run/y6pjkv0m https://www.speedrun.com/Celeste/run/y89nkonm https://www.speedrun.com/Celeste/run/zg79ldjz

All of them point to the same video (), which as far as I can tell doesn't show the version number anywhere. Looking at your youtube channel it looks like you do have a run that matches the most recently submitted time and that shows the version number. (). Please submit and link to that video.

We took down your previous run because it also didn't show the version number. The verifier who originally verified it made a mistake and didn't check it was shown. A moderator noticed that you had resubmitted your previous PB's vod, and that it didn't show the version, and so removed the runs to maintain the leaderboard's integrity. Apologies for that, however I'm sure you'll be able to have your pb on the board in no time.

Hope that clears it up.

You can copy the folder containing Celeste somewhere else, then install Everest on that version. To make sure Steam doesn't try and run the original Celeste when you start the one with Everest, also put a file called steam_appid.txt with the contents 504230 in the folder with the everest Celeste.exe. Then you can start Everest Celeste by running it's version of Celeste.exe, and regular Celeste by using Steam

Thanks for the feedback. Some thoughts:

I definitely don't think it's worth editing 500+ runs for this! My suggestion is to make sure that future runs have the information, while leaving the existing leaderboards unchanged. As more runs get submitted, it will slowly be populated.

I also didn't claim keyboards were at a disadvantage to controller, rather that there were functional differences, with feathers being the best example. As Jumpyluff brings up, using analog is very painful in a lot of situations. Additionally, I would say it is way easier to do multi key combinations on keyboards, as you can use more fingers easier. So overall there are advantages to both.

In respect to the concern about player's thinking one input method has an advantage over another, two things:

1. Currently in the top 5, 2 players use keyboard (Fladervy, Msushi), while the other 3 use controllers (TGH, buhbai, OddBod). I'm not sure about the top 10 or further (For the next 5 people, only Psyched had an input display and was using controller). However, it seems like keyboard and controller are well enough represented among the best players at the moment that most people will not assume one gives an advantage.
2. In the case where say all runners in the top10 used the same type of input method, I would claim that it is quite likely that that input method does give some type of advantage, however small. There's a lot of nuance here, as group-think may factor into it, along with ease of setup, however at some point the empirical evidence that the top players are using one type of input probably indicates it has a slight advantage.

In terms of meming the submission and meme input methods, I would say keep it very simple (Keyboard vs Controller vs Other), and then let me people meme it if they want. The majority of players will be honest, and it doesn't affect the rankings. If someone wants to use an unusual input method and claims it is a controller/keyboard, let them. It won't change anything in the big picture. In terms of people petitioning for a unique input method to be its own variable, require them to have 10 or so runs by different people using that method submitted to the leaderboard.

Finally, on the topic of doing a survey or similar method of finding out what input methods top players use, I feel like that's a good idea to do if this doesn't go through. However as far as I see it, having a living survey (the leaderboards) is a much better way to capture the community consensus. Additionally, having it tied to ranks lets yourself set minigoals (I want to be the top 10 keyboard/controller player! I want to be the best esoteric input method player!) that would be very hard/impossible with a survey.

Thanks again for listening.

There are functional differences between playing on a keyboard vs playing with a controller (in particular, with feathers). Additionally, there are often questions from people starting to speedrun about whether top players use controllers or use a keyboard. For these reasons, I think it would be beneficial for the leaderboards to show what input method people used for the PC platform, as this is the one with the most variance.

This could be achieved through multiple ways, such as:

1. Introducing a new variable (in line with Game Version and Platform) that specifies the type of input (Controller vs Keyboard vs Other). This could also be more specific (Xbox vs Playstation vs Switch vs keyboard vs other).

2. Split the PC platform into PC - Controller and PC - Keyboard. Possibly include PC - Other for more unusual input methods (). Additionally, we may want to keep PC for backwards compatibility with the current leaderboards, but enforce that it is not chosen for future submitted runs.

I would suggest implementing 1), but just using the simple options (Controller vs Keyboard vs Other). I think this is a simple solution that has clear backwards compatibility. Additionally, it allows weird cases where a console player uses a keyboard or something.

What do people think about this? Personally I think it is worth the effort, but I can see it being slightly more work for submitting runs and verifying. To me it seems like this information would be most useful for new runners, as they can make an informed decision about what type of input method they want to use.