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Why?

I'll be running all wisps no OOB for now; whether or not that gets added to the leaderboard is fine. The progression is pretty much identical to the first 40 minutes of any% normal no OOB, and then you just TP out of willows end to clear out the other 3 areas. The nice thing about all wisps especially, is you need to do each of the escape sequences as well as every boss except for 1 (Hornbug the beetle). There is a skip for the Winswept Ruins escape, however you don't get the inventory progression of having Seir as tracked by the game until the very end of the escape. My thoughts right now would that All Bosses or All Wisps is the go to category, both have their ups and downs. Another alternative is All cells, which requires all bosses and adds in some extra collection aspect to help differentiate from the first 2/3 of the run being nearly identical to any% no OOB.

Each of the three different types (as well as some boss based category) are all pretty similar and identical; what is also discussed though is a form of progression constraint, which can be reasoned and applied in different ways/reasons.

No OOB is a clear flag that is used frequently, as to what it removes currently is an extremely precise end game trick to skip destroying all but 1 of the hearts in Willow's End, an early sequence break to get to Silent Woods, and an early game boss skip and chase sequence right at the start of the run. The No OOB flag would probably ban these, and other future sequence breaks that require going OOB to get through.

NMG or selected restrictions or whatever you call it is a subjective list of sequence breaks people just don't want to deal with, or ban certain sequence breaks because feel like the execution to do them removes more interesting movement elements in the game. This is a decent way of trying to ban as many sequence breaks and 'glitches' as possible, but will be subject to change as the opinions and reasoning of what to ban changes over time.

Story based progression constraint to force people to follow a linear path at certain sections, which can be decent if you want to restrict some component of end game that would effect most of the run. For WotW, this is a discussed option due to gating when you can acquire the skill Launch as well as access silent woods, baur's reach, luma pools, mouldwood depths, willows end, windswept wastes, etc. This is to prevent sequence breaks such as Silent Swim (poison swim to get to silent woods on easy difficulty skipping wellspring depths) as well as restricting the portion of the run when you can get launch (normally about 40-50 mins into the run on normal difficulty, would shift to about 20 minutes later) and force more tech of mid-air sentry jumps etc.

Other restrictive modes might look to remove current sequence breaks such as feather/ku skip, poison water swims, sentry jumping, feeding grounds skips, wrong warping, escape based sequence breaks, etc. There are A LOT of constraint based options beyond unrestricted based categories, and right now it's important to play around and test stuff out before we take a step to add those in. Mainly because this won't just affect the Any% category, but also upcoming mid-range categories and multi-hour collection based categories which I imagine will be brought on.

For me right now just based on my subjective experience, I have been doing a lot of All Wisps - Normal - No OoB which has been the most enjoyable to me. Gating Launch by 20 extra minutes doesn't change much of the route for me, due to just replacing them with multiple applications of a near frame-perfect trick all over the place. No OOB is also nice on normal, because no poison swim to silent woods, and feather skip is a bad idea due to a heart in willows end. If I were to guess what would be added for constraint based sub categories, it would be Unrestricted (anything goes), No OoB with some other wrong-warp or other displacement glitch removed, No Early Quests (which is the story based progression constraint) or some other "Selected Restrictions" based element.

Hi

We are introducing Tike as a new leaderboard moderator who has experience with the game including guilds and flashpoints. Tike spearheaded adding the co-op flashpoint as a leaderboard and through their hardwork the leaderboard is up and fully functional. I will take a moment here to address a few crucial changes that will affect ALL flashpoint submissions.

Solo - Flashpoints ~There is a solo-story and solo-veteran flashpoint leaderboard, please consider the difficulty (shown in quest name) before choosing which one you submit to. ~For further verification purposes of no Outside Help, we are requesting that you show your Guild Perks Menu during your submission video. ~Guild Perks that do not speed up the run or give you an advantage will not disqualify your run from being verified under the ruleset (ie exp perks for flashpoint runs do not speed up your run).

For Co-op Flashpoints - Veteran: ~The timing method we will be using is you each load up the flashpoint, then once everyone is in the flashpoint, the first character that punches in an input will begin timing for both of you. Then once both collectively hit the end dialogue boom timing is done. ~Teammates (party members) do not count towards Outside Help. ~For further verification purposes of no Outside Help, we are requesting that you show your Guild Perks Menu during your submission video. ~Guild Perks that do not speed up the run or give you an advantage will not disqualify your run from being verified under the ruleset (ie exp perks for flashpoint runs do not speed up your run).

As always, if you have questions the discord is the best way to approach mods and other runners! Look for the #SWTOR channel when you enter.

Hope you enjoy and thanks again to Tike for the work! -CovertMuffin

Yeah not sure NeoSlash, that's up to the runner. At the time the run was submitted there WAS a video. I know this because I watched all 9 hours of it from start to finish, took me like 2 weeks (pretty sure popbob watched a good chunk as well).

The run is still verified for legality reasons of the leaderboard, but the video itself is the runners job, I'd suggest trying to get in contact with them directly if you can.

Thanks, -Muffin

Thanks popbob,

The overall idea is that additional exp gained from characters that are not the direct new character you are running should not be comparable for a "No Outside Help" (No OH) speedrun. Conquest bonuses are accrued unfortunately from replaying planets over and over again.

If there is a run that has you acquire a conquest EXP gain but does NOT affect the exp curve, then the run can still be accepted, but because this is a MMO, then bleh please just reset. I know this sucks for people doing korriban runs that involve the RNG quest.

These questions were answered in the discord channel linked to this leaderboard; seek out the text channel #swtor in the discord server provided on this leaderboard.

I have discussed this further with xoza, looking forward to potential submissions towards future categories, please make sure to follow the general ruleset for reproducibility of attempts with new categories as follows:

• No purchasing of legacy upgrades/buffs during the run.
• No use of server-wide event benefits or stims/adrenals are permitted (exp buffs are exception).
• Timing starts on first input after entering flashpoint/operation. Timing ends on final dialogue/action to exit flashpoint.

If you have not checked the resource section, the best place to reach and discuss SWTOR speedrunning is in the star wars general speedrunning discord in the #swtor channel. Invite link is in resources and posted here: https://discord.gg/yn5DsaR

EDIT_ Elaborating the above statement; the idea of speedrunning is you want to have the least mining of resources to be able to have reporducible runs; as such those who want to grind a max level charecter should not be expected to dump tons of resources each attempt in order to allow for as much reset potential to inspire optimization of performance. Resource and even monetary advantages are silly to consider in the same regard as a skill of a player

Hey here is just a generic all purpose glitch/exploit thread as people discover stuff; here is one I found in my casual playthrough so far:

Hey speedfriends,

I just did a minor alteration to the style of the leaderboard, where I switched class to be to the left of subscription status, and then added in the "obsolete" classes to the leaderboard, so if you submit multiple classes to the 1-10 runs, you get to see how your best time ranks up

ie. my sith warrior "1-10 Legacy Restricted" time is slower than sith inquisitor, but it will consider my rank on the fastest overall time between all classes (the sith inquisitor), and then show my fastest run for each class.

This looks okay right now because we don't have a lot of runs submitted, in the future there's been some small conversation around changing the category + subcategory system to be as follows:

Primary Categories 1-10 No LG/OH, 1-10 LG Restricted No OH, 1-10 LG Open, Other categories.

Sub Categories for 1-10 leveling categories will either be: -By starting homeworld -By Faction (republic, empire)

This change would only take affect if the game recieves a lot more attention/submissions. I also, made a smaller post in the discord about this, if you havent already that's the best place to join (invite link in resources tab).

As always, let me know if you have questions or concerns, the discord server is the best way to get my attention and I hope you have an epicly enjoyable time.

-Muffin

There is an all purpose Star Wars Speedrunning discord for communities that are on the smaller end. I thought it might be a bit more effective for people to communicate or ask questions than over the forum or in video comments.

As such I am moderating that discord and created a text channel titled #swtor that people can post in. See resources tab for an invite link:

https://www.speedrun.com/swtor/resources

The way the rule reads right now is: "Timer starts once space bar is pressed in the first cut scene. Timer ends once you reach level 10. After the run's completion open the legacy pane to confirm no legacy perks were used."

"Once space bar is pressed in the first cutscene" implies that starting the cutscene is not when timing starts; this means you could sit there for 5 minutes in order to save 5+ seconds which doesn't make sense.

Also heard reports that the cutscene loads at different rates initially for different people, which is a problem for comparability. It's inevitable for lag and less powerful computers to likely lose time at every computer, but the very start of the run can at least be fixed.

As such I'm going to change the start time to first action input so you can mash through the first cutscene, and then timing will start when your character starts moving or if you open your inventory for the first time or legacy or anything.

Players who have submitted times can feel free to re-enter their PBs with updated timings (since this saves ~5 seconds each run) or leave their times as is. LMK if you have a problem with this change in rules.

-Muffin

Also I guess corrupted forms of abilities to build speed; Glide obtained from corrupting double jump can be used to maintain speed. So if you either grapple and then double jump -> glide you can build and maintain a lot of speed; Corrupted grapple also builds an INSANE amount of speed as well. Also rolling off of a ledge and double jump -> glide is another way to build and store a lot of horizontal speed.

EDIT_ Also I'm sure others know this, but if you are standing on a platform you can fall through and have a huge vertical distance to traverse downward, just drop down and do a downward air attack and continue to hold down + jump, you will continue to pass through all fo the floors.

You can get into cathedral early using this method; but I'm not sure sequence breaking to wall run or grapple would help too much; Maybe if you found a huge treasure trove and stocked up early that could be powerful, but would that be any faster than just normal progression? Hmmm also what about something like getting the first 3 shards and corrupting the wall run, so you can literally spiderman any wall. Maybe that could be useful

I also edited and updated the 1st, 2nd and 3rd place emblems

I went ahead and added a 3rd category for Legacy Restricted and changed the way the Leaderboard is layed out for 1-10 to streamline it and make it more evident.

I roped together all of the 1-10 categories into subcategories; LG = Legacy and OH = Outside Help as described in the "View Rules" button.

No LG, No Oh = Legacyless

LG Restricted, No OH = basically only global legacy for more easily reproduceable and reset friendly speedrun.

LG Open = Anything goes, just have to start from character creation for timing and then you can use mail, collections, legacy purchases whatever. Some people expressed interest in having a YOLO format for the run, so here it is.

To each of the categories I added a new mandatory variable, which is character Class. This is important because different planets and/or classes have different amounts of run time due to class missions and the like. ie. Sith warrior about 15-16 minutes into the run has to go really far because Darth Baras is really inconveniently placed in the Temple; but for inquisitor that part is really really fast. As such inquisitor will just be faster until that changes if they patch again.

This also allows you to use the "Filter" function to only compare times of like class; because we don't have that many runs submitted this is kind of useless right now. BUT I do plan on doing a run for each main class which will be cool to compare peoples times/strategies/routes for those. That being said, only your fastest time will show up on the leaderboard, so if you DO feel like doing runs of every class, your fastest overall time for that sub category is the one that will be shown (unless filtered)

Hope this format works out for everyone, if there are issues or changes that need let me know

Okay I'm just going to update the leaderboard with the suggestions; I'll make a new category that falls under Legacy Allowed and fix the rules for that. Visa if you want to submit after I make that the original run you wanted to submit I'll approve it asap!!

like we could make 1-10 a category, then have 3 sub categories; LegacyLess (shows up first), Legacy Restricted and Legacy Allowed

I just have no desire to do runs that require hours of farming prior to each attempt or to shift things from other characters to the one I am starting the run with.

Does that seem like the best way to make people happy? Just having another category where legacy is allowed but restricted? I can take care of setting it all up (and you can revert the rules back for the Leveling 1-10)

I don't think anyone should be able to get anything extra that they don't start with on the run; items have the same inclination towards requiring transactions during the run, which I'm not a fan of. Although I do agree it's probably the best thinking about it more, because legacy perks and the extra buffs all just come down to extra farming in the end. So why bother restricting them; and legacy items would just be a permanent thing, unlock them once and boom.

What I DON'T understand is how you can mail something to a character you have not made yet, or can you send mail to screen names that havent been made yet?

I don't know, I would feel a lot better if we made a "legacy restricted" category as well then, and then have the 1-10 doors open to mail, legacy purchases, whatever that allows all of these transactions during the run. Because it looked like there were people interested in doing that?

For this category we made the following changes a while back to make the run both reproducible and more comparable between runners. For some reason the rules reverted so I will fix them again but I wanted to make a post here just in case this happens again:

Rules for Level 1-10:

• No use of guilds or outside help, mail, cartel market or collections.
• No purchasing of Legacy Upgrades/Buffs during the run.
• No use of seasonal/special in-game events (ie. Double exp)
• Timer starts once space bar is pressed in the first cut scene. Timer ends once you reach level 10.

Rules Clarifications: -Outside help is considered character-> character transfer of items, goods or assistance. If a random person attacks a mob that you aggro'd first, that is fine. However, coordinated efforts are not allowed. -The use of mail, cartel markets and collections is banned to stop macro-transactions in order to enhance the speedrun unreasonably. The idea is that you don't have to spend millions of credits and/or cartel coins (or hours) preparing for every single run. -The purchase of legacy buffs/upgrades during the run is banned in order to stop macro transactions for that as well. The idea is that you have access to global and account unlocked buffs/abilities, but once again do not need to spend millions of credits and/or cartel coins (or hours) preparing for every single run. -No guilds, groups or double exp events is self explanatory. The boosted exp is not coolio.