So there's been a number of concerns about getting v1.2, which as far as I know can only be done if someone finds an upload of it from 3+ years ago. I don't even know where my own files for it are so an upload from me is impossible at this point. However, V1.3 (which should be easily available on GOG/Steam) is very similar to 1.2, with the exception of no infinite xp glitch from the dryad in Durlags Tower and some changes to the chapter skip glitch in the mines and can serve as the main pre-2.0 version. Going forward in regards to the leaderboards I propose 3 options:

1. We simply add a version 1.3 section and have it be the headliner for the game, while moving 1.2 from the opening spot due to its inaccessibility at this point in time.

2. Swap the current patch to the opening spot, and simply use the latest version as the primary version for current speedruns despite the differences in 2.0 from the original releases.

3. Just remove the 1.2 category altogether.

Let me know what you guys think, and depending on what happens with the upcoming 2.5 patch we can decide on what to do from there.

All good stuff here, I want to check one or two more things out but that sounds about right. I'd probably get the other Planar Sword as well in order to buy some stuff to make Cille castle go a bit smoother. The Pron glitch always happens on Mieu so theres no avoiding it here. You can also avoid messing with Aron/Mieu/Wren's techs by taking the monomates/items in the slot immediately above the inventory in Laya's inventory for 3rd gen, this allows a little more freedom in positioning Kara and Laya's techs to what we need.

Lastly, for the purposes of leaderboards, I'll be making the GBA version a separate category, as this glitch (much like the glitched characters in PS2JP) is a huge change up in terms of how the game is run compared to the genesis version, not simply faster text or whatever minor things that wouldn't warrant a separation.

Did a bit more testing, wanted to see how the game handled generation transitions and from what I could see nothing really changed. I did all my testing with having Mieu be the one doing the glitch at the start of the game, but I think since the other main characters have seperate inventories from Rhys we could hypothetically remove the glitch permanently for 2nd and 3rd gen by having Rhys do it. I got up to 3rd gen with no problems, but I'm a bit worried on whether or not it'll crash once we get to the Nei items, considering the glitched inventory has no shortage of Orakio Swords in it.

Anyways, some of my findings:

• If you perform the glitch on any character and have them level up to level 2 you have easy access to two(!) Planar Swords right off the bat. In all my testing it always killed Lyle in 1 hit and not to mention they're worth 32000 meseta a pop - which sets us up with the possibility of grabbing the royal needlers if we were so inclined.

• The glitched characters CAN equip items, but they'll be the ones of the person who is below them in the character list. For example, if Mieu is glitched and I give Wren a laser shot and equip it, Mieu will now shoot a laser shot as well. If you wipe out the inventory and equip Lyle with staves, she will skip past wren's (non existent) items and use Lyle's staves.

• You can stack attack infinitely on a character. Simply have someone equip an item, wipe the inventory by using a monomate, restore it, then equip again and the attack value will only increase. This is only potentially useful for Mieu if we glitch out Rhys, as all of Wren's items have set damage ranges.

• Glitching out the inventory in the 3rd generation is seemingly impossible to recover from. I'll need to do more tests with Laya in the party, but doing it before she joins makes it impossible to bring Kara back in line.

• Tech underflows are possible. Every monomate we use pushes the techs up one on the menu. If there's an empty spot on the battle techs (tsu doesn't appear for example) and we can use it in battle, it will count as a 256 level tech. I've seen these techs do anywhere from mid 6000s to tens of thousands of damage. These also count for the other techs, but I doubt a 1000 heal Gires is of much use. An underflowed Fanbi could be interesting, but I haven't tried it out.

-Techs shift from generation to generation, as with new characters being put in the party slots with new techs will shift the table a bit.

• Consistency in amount of times we use the glitched inventory and how it affects later generations is going to be key. How many times do we use monomates in order for us to have glitched techs available for each generation while still maintaining a working inventory is going to be the most important aspect of figuring this stuff out, as I dont think taking the force staves/planar swords affects techs.

In the genesis version, we can remove all items from a character and then still be able to use the item command in a battle. This deletes an item from our inventory that has 0 items and subsequently underflows it and crashes the game. However, while exploring the gba version on a whim, I've found that this is no longer the case, and we do in fact have access to an expanded inventory.

I've done a bit of preliminary tests with only Mieu and Rhys, and it seems that if you use the first Dimate in whichever inventory is underflowed, you can once again give items to the other person. I've also taken a bunch of force staffs and a laser shot or two, which actually changed Rhys' stats - much like the Pron glitch - as well as giving around 60k meseta within 5 minutes or so.

This is probably something that could be huge, and I hope we can get some more insight into it.

As usual, rumors of my demise have been greatly exaggerated. I played around with the trial version for a bit, which I think gives you 15 minutes since it kicked me out as I was finishing the red dam, and found it did exactly as I said - allowing us to skip the last 3 defense manipulations. Since the Neislasher is the first item we get, virtually nothing changes - just less work. However, naming characters takes you outside of the game for a sec to use the special input they have that allows you to use lower case letters which costs a tiny bit of time. In addition, I took the time to figure out how to grab the Storm Gear immediately after the Neislasher manipulation, and its as simple as equipping Rudo's boots and unequipping the fibergear and Neicape.

Its pretty much a free time save over the original version, but you have to contend with the awful Xbox controller pad which is a definite negative. As far as other items that can be gotten from lowercase/numerals, the list isnt too great - just check the item value list. Its honestly a shame that the storm gear seems to line up with punctuation and not an actual number or letter - would make things even faster for storm gear enthusiasts like myself.

Hey all. Turns out you can use lower case letters and numbers in this version when naming characters. These in turn allow us to get the Neishield and Neiemel from "tu". This would mean the defense manipulation for Amy could be reduced to a single step given the current route, but leave us without the storm gear. Could be worth a closer look.

Absolutely. The differences between 1.2, 1.3 and 2.x are pretty significant though, so they would probably be different categories. If you mean the non-enhanced edition then I would say you'd need to make a new page, as the gameplay is significantly changed for both vanilla BG and TotSC.