As of writing this message the rules state that we need to be using "Bizhawk", "psx", or "ePSXe" for valid emulation runs. Is there a possibility of allowing other emulators, in particular "Duckstation" or "Mednafen"?

I'm on Linux (not Windows) and the only available option listed under the Rules is "ePSXe". This emulator hasn't been updated since 2016 so I can't really use it. This requires installing very outdated versions of some runtime libraries which can be unsafe and difficult to deal with on modern Linux systems, especially when trying to install in parallel with their newer counterparts.

Cross-platform Emulators (available for both Linux & Windows) I've been using are "Duckstation" and "Mednafen". Both are actively developed and used by many other speedrun boards, especially "Duckstation" which is easier to work with and quite accurate. I saw that some of you guys have already been testing it for performance comparisons. If you're willing to look into either of them further and decide on either to be allowed for valid Emu runs I'd really appreciate it.

I agree with duckstation. Many games have already adapted it for running their games. This way everyone would have access to that emulator and by using the same agreed on setting could run with a emulator download. I went through hell trying to find a pstv the last few months to start practicing runs on something other than my cell phone lol.

I have noticed the load times on duckstation under the 10x load time setting are insane. Everything from getting into a battle to screen transitions and cutscene fading in and out is so much faster and smoother with it. 10x I did notice causing some audio issues on cut scenes but timing wise still played the whole duration of it as intended.

Was personally thinking of uploading some runs using duckstation on each of the different speed settings probably just up through the end of central Park to give everyone an idea of what the load times would be like and to help make a decision as to what setting should be the max allowed. (20x seems like it has issues with audio during gameplay)

Either way to your point the old emulators do not receieve support anymore and with the newest version of windows some of them have gotten kinda buggy(looking at you ppsspp). It would be nice to use an emulator that stays updated in the current time and makes it easier to switch disc , load times , better controller support, etc.

Older runs using emulators can stay on the boards and if those players wanted to comeback and redo their times they would be more than welcome to of course but it's just like when pstv and psp came out with pe1. Everyone that was running on ps1 realized the time savings from the faster loads and upgraded by buying those new systems.

Well, I know that default "Duckstation" settings are a bit slower overall in comparison to something like PSTV. I saw one speedrun board allow using "2x (Quad Speed)" over the default "None (Double Speed)" under Console Settings. Not sure if that will make our emu runs on par with current PSTV runs but it could be a starting point for comparisons.

Aside from performance testing as long as we "Show Enhancement Settings" and "Show Status Indicators" under Advanced Settings and enable all the OSD overlays to show Speed, FPS, etc. under Display Settings it should help ensure validity of the run and that nobody is using faster options than what's agreed upon.

Thank you crazy for your work towards it. My one thing is why does it need to run at the same speed of older emulators though. If it can be run stably by all runners while cutting down on loads then why not run at a higher read speed?

It's like I said previously, runners who had only a psone moved to psp or pstv when those platforms came available due to faster read speed, load times. Difference here is that a runner would just have to download duckstation instead of hunting for a console online. Would be more accessible (due to not having to find a pstv or psp) and cut down the runtime a bit(load times, screen transitions, battle loads) which makes it more accessible to more people. Everything I've tried so far does not affect the actual gameplay or fmvs as far as their speed though the crazy high settings do cause auto issues. I really feel like 3x seek and read speed could be the setting to use as it is pretty quick for all loads and doesn't cause issues with audio.

Thanks for putting in the time, crazey. I'm curious to see how close you can get to your current runs on PSTV. As far as settings to look at I feel most are pretty basic but he FFIX board has a small guide for their "Duckstation" settings we could look at for reference. https://www.speedrun.com/ff9/guide/sy8j6 (I'll remove link if needed but considering it's on this same site I thought it might be OK.)

All pretty standard but they do recommend using "3x (6x Speed)" Read Speedup. Apart from that, on the Rayman [1] board they have a google doc under Guides which recommends "7x (14x Speed)". It makes me wonder if it's per-game specific via trial-and-error. I will say that most other boards simply say to use default settings with only OSD changes, etc, but for those games maybe it's fine.

So it's up to us considering there's no general consensus. I guess we can just do a few runs up to Central Park (or after) and compare the times with PSTV runs. Should at least give an idea of load times. I'm not as experienced in the game as others here but I'll try some runs on my end starting with the basics like default settings + 2x Read Speedup, then 3x, etc. If you guys have other things you'd like to try I'm all for it. I appreciate trying to open the game up to more runners and growing the community.

You probably have the most experience among us so I'll take your word for it. On my side, I was running 2x and 3x but my menus still aren't good enough to be consistent so I began paying more attention to load transitions. I was trying to compare side-by-side with runs already posted here by counting frames. I may continue to do this if only for my own curiosity.

Regardless, if you determined that "Duckstation" at "2x (Quad Speed)" matches currently accepted emulator speeds then hopefully we can get a mod to sign off on it. Of course with OSD displays, "Show Enhancements" and "Show Status Indicators". Although I don't know if we need to show the 'Resolution' in OSD, just everything else but that's up to them and not a big deal.

Looking forward to the results.

"management" has been discussing this topic and are going to be announcing some rule changes and updates to reflect the times we live in. Stay tuned but always remember "management" are people with stuff going on. We aren't on this site 24/7. I would suggest joining the discord or dming a mod if you have questions that you want to ask directly.

Me and the other mods were just talking amongst ourselves. We're pretty much going to be opening it up for all emulators and various settings we just want to work on the write up for the rules. They are in dire need of a refresh and updating. I've been traveling a lot over the summer so not much time for me to think about a whole lot. All of the changes and things we make will be posted in the discord.

I feel like the community of runners of the game has not really been involved in the discussion of rule changes which is directly against the rules of SRDC that state that community needs to be involved with the discussion of rule changes.

Quote rules "The users moderating a game should represent the consensus of the players of the game. If it is evident that moderators are not representing consensus among runners, site staff may change moderation"

As an active (and a top 4 runner) of the game, I am not even aware of any community input that has been discussed about recent matters regarding rule chages, nor am I aware of where this discussion is held. Also taking in to account that you just said that, quote "Me and the other mods were just talking amongst ourselves. We're pretty much going to be opening it up for all emulators and various settings we just want to work on the write up for the rules. " I feel like this does not really represent what the community wants, and represents more what the moderators want, which is not currently aligned with what the community wants.

i have talked with some of the other top active runners of the game and they agree to the fact that it appears ruling has been done without the community input.

so here I ask, where does this discussion take place so that the community can actually participate to it ?

Hey if we're finally having the discussion openly, just want to throw in that emulator can just be an additional category. Separate the times between the console runs and the emulators. Timings for the duckstation 2x10x settings are pretty close to pstv times. Even then we can have separation just to be safe and allow people to have more access and options as to runs. Not everyone can shell out for a pstv, turbo controller, capture card, the game and or a chronus, which is a fair argument but duckstation has proven to be a very reliable emulator in our testing.

I have to agree with mugi as far as the rules quote though. If talks of implementing changes and adding categories has been discussed amongst the mods, us runners have been kept out of the loop other than us asking about turbo or emulators on the discord. I personally have not been asked my opinion and I ran for about 8 months straight and still do runs weekly. On both pstv and duckstation for testing purposes to get the data we used for comparisons. I understand that the forum may not be the most ideal option for discussions, however it is the first thing new runners come to and information can be just as easily stored on here as it can on discord. Redundancy is never a bad thing imo.​

First of all, we are not writing new rules and putting them in place without consulting the community. We merely had a discussion for a couple of minutes after crazey posted about presenting everyone with options. I didn't explicitly say that so I apologize if it came across like we were just changing everything and not asking everyone first. That is not my intentions or any of the other mod's intentions. We very much want everyone's thoughts and opinions. Being a top runner, being more active currently, or doing testing will not give someone more of a say. Everyone who is apart of the community will be allowed to be involved if they want to be. With that being said, all of these discussions will be taking place in the discord. You're free to be in the discord or not, I know some of you left a long time ago, but it easier for us to manage and it has more eyes on it than these forums. You can leave again as soon as you feel discussions have concluded if you feel so inclined.