Load times have always been a factor in Shenmue (for example, my Shenmue any% WR is not as much of an improvement over puri's as it seems - my Dreamcast loads a little faster than his).

However, with a PC version now being available, differing load times are more significant than ever. To make matters worse, it's possible to run the Xbox version of Shenmue II from the hard drive of a modded Xbox, resulting in differences in loads of several minutes.

As such, we need a method of removing loads. Generic load removers that rely on video simply don't work, as loading starts before the load screen appears, and ends before the load screen fades out (and the load screen fading out is a problem too). Relying on memory addresses is more effective, but unfortunately will only work for the PC version.

I suggest a compromise; although the load screen start/endpoints are not discrete, the UI appearing/disappearing is. For loads bookended by gameplay, we can use the time between the UI disappearing and the UI reappearing (perhaps minus two seconds to account for the fade out/fade in) as "loading time".

For loads involving exiting to the menu, there's no fade out - so we can time these accurately using only the black screen as loading time. For loads from menu to game, we can go from black screen to UI appearing (again, perhaps minus a second to account for the fade in).

For loads with a cutscene on either end, we'll have to ignore them - there's no reliable timing point.

Pros/cons:

• it helps level the playing field, so that having a PC that takes longer to load isn't a disadvantage, and running the game from the hard drive on the Xbox isn't an advantage.

• it's consistent across both games and all platforms, both old and new.

• depending on how it affects the route taken (remains to be seen), it may mean that Dreamcast, Xbox, and Re-release runs are comparable, so we can recombine them into one - at least for some categories.

• it has to be done manually; this would take a while (especially bringing old runs up to date) and require verification.

• it doesn't remove all load times, only most of them.

It's important we get this sorted, so let me know what you think of the above solution, as well as bringing up any other potential solutions.

Load times have always been a factor in Shenmue (for example, my Shenmue any% WR is not as much of an improvement over puri's as it seems - my Dreamcast loads a little faster than his).

However, with a PC version now being available, differing load times are more significant than ever. To make matters worse, it's possible to run the Xbox version of Shenmue II from the hard drive of a modded Xbox, resulting in differences in loads of several minutes.

As such, we need a method of removing loads. Generic load removers that rely on video simply don't work, as loading starts before the load screen appears, and ends before the load screen fades out (and the load screen fading out is a problem too). Relying on memory addresses is more effective, but unfortunately will only work for the PC version.

I suggest a compromise; although the load screen start/endpoints are not discrete, the UI appearing/disappearing is. For loads bookended by gameplay, we can use the time between the UI disappearing and the UI reappearing (perhaps minus two seconds to account for the fade out/fade in) as "loading time".

For loads involving exiting to the menu, there's no fade out - so we can time these accurately using only the black screen as loading time. For loads from menu to game, we can go from black screen to UI appearing (again, perhaps minus a second to account for the fade in).

For loads with a cutscene on either end, we'll have to ignore them - there's no reliable timing point.

Pros/cons:

• it helps level the playing field, so that having a PC that takes longer to load isn't a disadvantage, and running the game from the hard drive on the Xbox isn't an advantage.

• it's consistent across both games and all platforms, both old and new.

• depending on how it affects the route taken (remains to be seen), it may mean that Dreamcast, Xbox, and Re-release runs are comparable, so we can recombine them into one - at least for some categories.

• it has to be done manually; this would take a while (especially bringing old runs up to date) and require verification.

• it doesn't remove all load times, only most of them.

It's important we get this sorted, so let me know what you think of the above solution, as well as bringing up any other potential solutions.

Yes, the reason that there are separate NG and NG+ categories is that in the Dreamcast and Xbox versions there are many cutscenes that are not skippable in NG that are in NG+, meaning you take a different route in each category.

If the separate categories didn't already exist, we probably wouldn't have a separate category for them for the Re-release, as the route is identical across NG and NG+; however, since there are minor differences they're here for consistency.

Added the category, and submitted one of my old runs to it. Have fun!

Okay, so I've made some changes!

Every category now has clear rules. Timing start and stop times are defined, glitchless categories explicitly list banned glitches (we should perhaps describe these glitches in the Guides or Resources categories), Paparazzi now has an extra rule for verification (I'm not going to remove SeductiveSpatula's run, though - having made my own attempts at the category I'm confident it's valid), and I've added Duck Racing and Fangmei (note: I'll remove them again later in the year if nobody runs them).

It's possible to choose Xbox One, PS4, or PC as a platform when submitting a run. If you try submitting an Xbox One run now I'll give you a swift kick. ;)

Different versions of the game do not yet have subcategories - I'm waiting to confirm exactly how the re-release handles various things as there could be the need for a shuffling of categories yet. Alternatively, a run on a different platform currently only obsoletes previous runs on that platform, so the filtering system can be used instead of subcategories - this will however need to change if re-release versions are comparable (and it's likely they will be).

I haven't removed Duck% yet - if we get some clarification on the rules and why they exist then I'll leave it, otherwise I'll remove it in a few days.

And we still need to have a discussion on how starting Shenmue II from a completed Shenmue I save should be treated - which categories should this be allowed in? Should it be a separate category?

Again, if there are any further ideas, or any objections to any of this, feel free to raise them.

Okay, so I've made some changes!

Every category now has clear rules. Timing start and stop times are defined, glitchless categories explicitly list banned glitches (we should perhaps describe these glitches in the Guides or Resources categories).

It's possible to choose Xbox One, PS4, or PC as a platform when submitting a run. If you try submitting an Xbox One run now I'll give you a swift kick. ;)

Different versions of the game do not yet have subcategories - I'm waiting to confirm exactly how the re-release handles various things as there could be the need for a shuffling of categories yet. Alternatively, a run on a different platform currently only obsoletes previous runs on that platform, so the filtering system can be used instead of subcategories - this will however need to change if re-release versions are comparable (and it's likely they will be).

Again, if there are any further ideas, or any objections to any of this, feel free to raise them.

Hi there!

Thanks to puri_puri for making me a mod of the Shenmue series, and sorry I couldn't reach out to contact you. I'm a big fan of the games, WR holder for any% and Glitchless Shenmue I, and not-very-good runner of Shenmue II (which is the main reason I don't submit times).

As the re-release of Shenmue I & II draws near, we'll see an influx of runners, and new platforms which will outperform the old ones.

My intentions are three-fold; firstly, I'd like to split the categories into subcategories based on version ("Dreamcast", "Xbox" for Shenmue II, "Re-release"). This would allow us to account for differences between versions (beyond load times). There's also the fact that the Dreamcast and Re-release versions of Shenmue II allow you to load a save file from the first game - at the moment, this is not recognised in any manner (because the Dreamcast version is slower anyway), but we'll need to account for this.

The second thing I'd like to do is to add clear rules to categories. I've been talking to A1Major about this and while it seems the community as a whole generally agrees on what the rules for each category is, they are in general poorly defined. I'd add clarifications to all categories (such as explaining what glitches are banned in glitchless, and clearly defining start/stop times).

The third thing I'd like to do is a (very minor) revamp of categories. I've seen a couple of other people running Shenmue I Bad Ending now, and if there's any demand for it I'd be happy to add it as a category.

On the Shenmue II side of things, Duck% is poorly defined and arbitrary, and puri's run no longer even has a working video - I'd suggest replacing this with the shorter and more clearly defined Duck Racing (goal: any% rules, earn the Gold Medal), as again I've seen a couple of people actually try this.

I'm not just going to go ahead and do it - I want you guys to let me know what you think of this direction and voice any concerns you have, or any suggestions for improvements.

Thanks for reading.

Hi there!

Thanks to puri_puri for making me a mod of the Shenmue series, and sorry I couldn't reach out to contact you. I'm a big fan of the games, WR holder for any% and Glitchless Shenmue I, and not-very-good runner of Shenmue II (which is the main reason I don't submit times).

As the re-release of Shenmue I & II draws near, we'll see an influx of runners, and new platforms which will outperform the old ones.

My intentions are three-fold; firstly, I'd like to split the categories into subcategories based on version ("Dreamcast", "Xbox" for Shenmue II, "Re-release"). This would allow us to account for differences between versions (beyond load times). There's also the fact that the Dreamcast and Re-release versions of Shenmue II allow you to load a save file from the first game - at the moment, this is not recognised in any manner (because the Dreamcast version is slower anyway), but we'll need to account for this.

The second thing I'd like to do is to add clear rules to categories. I've been talking to A1Major about this and while it seems the community as a whole generally agrees on what the rules for each category is, they are in general poorly defined. I'd add clarifications to all categories (such as explaining what glitches are banned in glitchless, and clearly defining start/stop times).

The third thing I'd like to do is a (very minor) revamp of categories. I've seen a couple of other people running Shenmue I Bad Ending now, and if there's any demand for it I'd be happy to add it as a category.

On the Shenmue II side of things, Duck% is poorly defined and arbitrary, and puri's run no longer even has a working video - I'd suggest replacing this with the shorter and more clearly defined Duck Racing (goal: any% rules, earn the Gold Medal), as again I've seen a couple of people actually try this.

I'm not just going to go ahead and do it - I want you guys to let me know what you think of this direction and voice any concerns you have, or any suggestions for improvements.

Thanks for reading.

Discussing load times with BlueMue on ShenmueDojo, we found that different individual consoles can produce different load times - the fairest method would be to remove load times, but this is difficult to do manually. I could look into finding (or making) a tool to remove them, if the demand is there.

Hi,

Is it possible to become a mod for the Shenmue series? The only existing mod is puri_puri and he's been inactive for well over a year. In less than a fortnight the games will be re-released, potentially changing the runs as well as bringing in a new set of runners; in addition, the pages need significant housekeeping anyway.

I currently hold the WR for both existing categories in the first game, and I have support from A1Major who holds records for most of the major categories of the second game .

Thanks for your time.