Can we remove "include character creation" as a requirement for online runs? Coordinating start times is a pain so often it will be minutes between character creation and "player taking control of character". Seeing naked level 1 in the lobby should be sufficient. Seems like a win all around for both mods and runners.

I think it makes sense for single player (to avoid preloaded runs) but online is different. Cheers.

Can I get some more clarification on why this is an issue? I personally don’t really see a downside to including character creation other than a couple minutes of waiting time in a vod. Seems sort of weird to have a speedrun vod without showing the character being created.

From a viewer's perspective I get annoyed trying to guess where the actual speedrun starts - the "glimpse" function in autoseek on twitch/youtube is often misleading on long videos.

From a runner's perspective, when highlighting part of a vod it's much easier to find the start of the timer counting (since you can just pick a point in the vod and do some basic math based on what RTA timer says) than it is to find the character creation, which may be 5 seconds hidden among 10-15 minutes of "downtime" in lobby screens etc. This only gets worse when there is a 30 second run in the middle of everything where someone accidentally created a ladder character or something so you have to re-create with even more lobby time to navigate.

At least for me highlighting vods is sometimes buggy, so the less finetuning I have to do in that editor the better.

My view is character creation is part of a speedrun, and generally this is a speedrun standard. I believe there has been a handful of online runs that have been approved with the missing character creation footage, but generally that requires a few extra steps of verifying the character is a new, level 1 character with no accidental tampering. If this was the case, an 8man run would require the verifier to watch up to 8 vods, wait for the character screen, inventory and/or party screen to open up and see everyone’s level, inventory, etc. and make sure new characters are used. I don’t think seeing a naked level 1 character in the lobby matches the burden of proof of creating a new character, however minute of an issue it may be.

I don’t think a run has been outright disqualified for not having character creation in the vod, but my preference is to have character creation through category finish all in one vod.

For the submission process, the person who is submitting the vod can provide a time stamped vod of when the timer starts, so if a viewer watches the vods they don’t have to click through a video to see when the run starts. Also, I think teams could be better coordinated when creating characters and starting the first game, too.

It's REALLY bad for YT content. No1 wants to watch someone sit at character creation for 2-5mins prior to a run. And the first 30 seconds of a YT video are the most important. And as a content creator.. this just hurts my business ;)

As far as the verification process goes: prior to the character joining the game (in the lobby) it shows no equipped gear, but once joined into the game you have a sword and shield (pally) or staff (sorc) etc.

I personally find it super frustrating

Everyone calls ready - then 1 person randomly says "oh wait i forgot to hit the record button or whatever" -> now 8 ppl have to delete and recreate the character just to meet this pointless rule.

• What Jym is saying also holds true. While this also is "doable" with a time stamp, not everyone is aware of this feature and thus watches ppl sitting in the menu for x minutes.

PS: I haven't cut my videos to the character creation in either of our runs as far as I remember - mods aint checking for this :P

This rule change is difficult because it leaves open holes in the verification process. I can’t think of a guaranteed way to verify a run is HC or not for a normal run except through death or requiring the runners to include s&e after killing baal. This will make us require a weirdly specific rule for HC runs to either show character creation or title reward for killing baal. Unless someone can show me a systemic way to know a normal run is HC, I fear that deathless SC runs cannot be differentiated with HC runs. There may be other drawbacks to not including character creation, but this is all I could think up.

Talking with the other mods, it sounds like the best solution would be to require player 1 (or at least one player) to show character creation. Player 1 is the person who creates game 1, and this will demonstrate the core the characters were created in.

Thoughts on this? Open for feedback.

that'd be fair enough