Watching some of the recent runs, I noticed that unlike what many think, Soulworker's IGT actually starts counting from the moment you press "Enter" when you select a stage, this means the loading time is included in the game IGT and while it may not be a big deal for Full-Town runs, since there isn't much competition there, I actually think that this is a problem for the Single Levels;
This is a situation where Better Hardware = Faster time on the leaderboards (to not mention the game's various problems with specific hardware types and poor optimization), and since the single levels are what most people actually run from the game, I think that the timing method should be refined.
I think making it IGT w/o loads is a good way of doing it: Timer starts when "Enter" is pressed on the stage selection, calculate the time you spend loading until control is given and then subtract that amount to the submitted time.
Or one can simply use an external timer, show it on the screen and start it when control is given after the loading.
What's your opinion on the situation?
I don't think loading screens should be counted towards the time, it's a little unfair.
I'm not exactly sure that's correct myself. I went in and manually re-timed 4 completely different runs from 4 of our previous runners - three different ways, and, while I can safely say idk HOW the IGT works, I can assure myself that I do NOT think it's from the time you hit "Enter" with the loading screen included;
So, let me go over the method I used real quick.
So I initially re-timed it starting on Enter and ending once the last hit killed the level boss. Pretty consistently there was a handful of seconds added on to what the IGT said the time was, with the major discrepancy BEING PhoenixLord, the most recent run submissions we've gotten.
Then I timed it how I THOUGHT it worked, by starting on level load, and ending once the results screen showed up, to my dismay... that also added in a handful of seconds with again, PhoenixLord being the exception somehow.
Though during re-timing one of LuluChanTVs runs for the results screen test, I accidentally stopped the timer a little after the slow-motion final hit had stopped and wound up getting something somewhat closer to what IGT said, going back and retiming PhoenixLord's run, I was also getting more consistent results, albeit with PhoenixLord having 1 second less than what IGT said, but that could have been a bit of human error on my end before going in and re-timing one of Quattrozander's and Neptuno's runs, and being confused all over again.
(See my results here)
Mind you, my sample size is VERY small, I only have a limited time to look into everything this morning, not to mention how small what I have to work with is in general, I'll try to do more testing a little later, but with what I currently have, I can say with at least some level of certainty that the loading screen ISN'T being tacked onto the IGT, because these other runs would be several seconds slower if it was.
Doesn't seem like my runs are affected by the loading screen. I remember when I had a less good pc, and when the loading screen was at the end I could hear the in-game sounds before the loading screen was gone. Mind this was back in the gameforge version. Though my pc is quite beefy now and I don't have the same thing happening anymore.
Neptuno's run is definitely on the new version too tho, so is Quattrozander's. Lulu (I think) is the only one I looked at from the Gameforge era. Either way, it doesn't seem like IGT tracks loads, which is what Sponger here was trying to tell us was happening.
EDIT: on that note though, I just did a bunch of new runs myself on a new character since I hadn't played on the Lion Games version, so I'll have a new area to pull a sample size from once I'm done posting those.
It seems to be inconsistent then, according to PhoenixLordSW's version: The game does start counting from when you load in IF you have a bulky PC, I may have another idea then:
When the load finishes, whe can already hear the sounds of the stage BEFORE we actually load in and have control, on slow PCs, it happens for some time and I can testify that as well with my old NG+ runs.
The Rucco% runs are done on a new PC and well- comparing the loads, on both PCs there is audio before loading in, but the difference is another: The time spent in actually loading after the "Loading" message disappears.
So the time does not start from when you press "Enter" , but it does start from when the game knows you've finished loading, aka the loading "Loading" message disappears! On my old PC, it takes around 6-7 seconds here and there for the game to Actually load in, on my new one, just a couple, if what Phoenix said is the answer, then it's a 4 second timeloss just for loads, my old runs can help verify this
EDIT: It can also explain why Phoenix was some kind of exception, his load times after the "Loading" message disappears are indeed very quick.
So I tried re-timing everything (again) to test your theory of the "Loading" text disappearing, and the last hit on the boss, and that DEFINITELY got me way more consistent results... except with PhoenixLord, who, when timed that way... was TWO seconds behind what IGT said, somehow. XD
That said, I am more inclined to believe it's after the text disappears. But now I have to question if that affects anything in game, because in some other games I play where a similar event occurs (Dream, Montague's Mount) -- both games allow you to walk and do things during the down period loads, so NOW all I want to do is test whether or not this down period can be utilized in some way for SoulWorker.
In my experience, you can definitely walk when you hit this point in the loading.
Btw, does that means I'm getting scammed xD?
idk, your run is an enigma to me, I can't seem to time it 1:1. XD
But that said, yeah, if what you're saying is true, Phoenix, and you can walk in the loading in-between, then there's no reason to change the timing from IGT. Because you're not necessarily losing time in a run.
I personally never managed to walk after the message disappears, it should be tested but I don't have the game anymore, Phoenix, may you provide some examples, pretty please? xD
EDIT: Of course, it must be some sort of skill/movement thing, like, the animation frame alone ain't enough, we need to see if you can actually go with muscle memory and complete a room while the load screen is still up, maybe we can try to stream it somewhere, if you have Discord
Can't recreate it since my game load too fast. And my experience is also from the old version. And I haven't been able to do it in the new one. Either because my pc is faster than back then or they have fixed it.
So, if you confirm that you cannot walk when it's done anymore, then my theory of "Better Hardware = Faster Time" is proven correct albeit not as I expected
I mean, it's not really "proven correct" if we can't test it. But I guess at this point, I digress.
Well, we'll just hold on to this until one can prove it, load times are per-se influenced, what we need to see is if it matters or not. I'll take this matter on my hands and try various ways to interact with the load screen after the message disappears: -Movement -Auto Attack -Right Click -Skills -Jumping + Jumping movement -Akasha I'll submit the video on YT asap with the keyboard inputs visible on-screen IRT, so we can conclude every possiblity!
VIDEO:
ANALYSIS: In the video I try to do every possible action when the "Loading" message disappears, some work and some do not, why's that? This is simple buffering, the "Loading" message disappearing is the start of the timer but NOT the start of the level, the level/control starts a few frames BEFORE the loading is complete and this is totally universal;
As you can see, I do attempt multiple times to do the same thing, but only if I get that perfect time window, the action is pre-emptively done with the 1FPS the game as the level loads, this technically means that you have 1/2 frames to buffer an action to the game and it will be instantly done, this can save some time!
However, this is not the point, while this is a little discovery for faster times (if you time it perfectly, you get an extra sprint/instant skill out, which in Lily's case, the right click can mean a lot as you literally start the level tp'd ahead), the point was: When the "Loading" disappears, do I have all the inputs as if I was already in the game?
ANSWER: No, only after it legit loads in, making the time you get control universal among every load screen time, fast or slow.
CONCLUSION: In the end, a faster load screen does indeed give 2/3 seconds of advantage most of the time and it's inconsistent nature makes it so that a faster hardware will indeed make your runs faster. Considering that the '''''''''''''''''newly-discovered''''''''''''''''' input buffer exists and that it's easily timable even for a human (Moment the game loads), I think that the moment the game loads must be considered part of the time, but NOT the loading screen, that should not be counted as it's hardware-dependant.
EDIT: Updated Conclusion
I'm suggestiong to start counting from the first loaded frame as that is when you have control at first. The loadings are inconsistent and they will make the 4 extra seconds value a lot
EDIT: Of course this won't imply the deletion or retiming of old runs, we'll just add a new timing method (RTA) alongside the IGT, which will still be used! If it happens that two runs share RTA (make it not count decimals) then IGT is considered for the fastest clear.
IGT starts whenever the game feels like it, RTA starts on the first loaded frame of the level, I'd say this can help everyone and not sound unfair towards IGT as it still does count, but of course, lemme know what you think
