Since this topic turned out to be much more controversial and spawned a much larger discussion than I initially expected, I figure another thread is in order.

Now, this thread is meant to act more like a poll than an actual discussion thread (wouldn't you know it src doesn't have anything for polling the community, what a great website). I want all posts here to simply state your preference and a brief explanation of why you take your stance. Any actual discussion about it should be done either in the previous thread or on discord.

As far as I'm concerned, we have 3 options to how to proceed:

• Simply allow using an optimized savefile
• Allow using an optimized savefile but add a variable tracking whether one was used, so that they can be filtered out
• Require a completed savefile

Non-runner votes will not be considered, whatever the majority decides on will be the rule.

Require a completed savefile.

Not only does allowing editing will see the category lose current runners and set a high barrier of entry for new runners, it also goes completely against what this category was - and in my opinion should be meant to be. Gauntlet.

Furthermore, allowing would not make running this category easier in the long run, it would only see to overtaking currently existing, grinded, records and reaching a similar stale running experience in the foreseeable future afterwards. If anything it would speed up the categorys lifetime, as a peak will be reached faster. So if you want the category to die and hijack what it was meant to be, thats what voting for allowing the editing is in my eyes.

Require a completed savefile.

I think a lot of the popularity of the gauntlet category is because it's played the same way many people enjoy e8 normally; with a full savefile and without lunars. Taking away some items would also take away a lot of that fun.

Besides, if runners want to do eclipse 8 speedruns with an optimised savefile they can just compete in the normal eclipse 8 category, the only major difference is that lunars are allowed.

Require a completed savefile.

Ditto ^

Do not require a completed save file

Trying to emulate gauntlet in a solo speedrun category just doesn't work because racing and speedrunning are entirely different. In a race you cannot reset, therefore having to deal with the 100% save file actually makes sense. In a speedrun you can reset as many times as you want for better seeds, so why not make that the tiniest bit easier?

The argument that save editing creates a high barrier of entry for new runners is absolute nonsense, we would not force people to do it and most new runners will likely not even consider it. What does create a high barrier of entry for new runners is requiring mods and forcing a 100% file on vanilla players.

I've attached images of what the non-unlocked items would be for an average character if I were to edit my save(s). As we all know by now the equipment change would be the main improvement as it would increase the chance of getting them equipment everyone dreams of, Eccentric Vase. The mod already requires that you only do two pillars in commencement, which is a testament to how bad the vase rng is with a 100% file. Save editing is a more natural way to improve run consistency. As for the other items I've highlighted, I think most people will agree they don't exactly scream 'fun'. There are still plenty of bad items in the pool.

I will still run this category even if a 100% file is forced, but I feel like gatekeeping it to satisfy completionist mentalities and opinions of how E8 should be played is ridiculous.

Require a complete savefile

I agree with all of what ruddy says.

I wanna push back on the idea that savefile editing is a change that solves accessibility. Idk who the imaginary person is who's competing in eclipse 8 level speedrunning and hasn't put the amount of hours into the game to unlock every item but i don't think that's realistic. If that was truly an issue we could talk about savefile editing to have everything unlocked for this person but I doubt this scenario will occur. If it does we have options to fix it.

I also wanna respond to the list of items edited and how that would complicate things further. While most characters are looking for a skip, in a loader run for example you're not. It would be pretty exhausting to have to leave the game and load a different file that included preon, capcitor, and blast shower just to switch what character you're running. This would essentially just discourage people from running loader or other survivors that don't need a skip savefile.

Runs should require a completed save file, the barrier to entry is already so high for this category, this would just make that worse.

require a completed savefile

The joy of seeing a good item on an optimised file would be less than on a vanilla file imo which would detract from the experience for me.

Allow with variable.

I personally think playing with an optimized save file would be more fun, especially with how I play coming in as a speedrunner. Mainly because I'd prefer to get more vases, because a lot of the runs do die because of it and that feels bad.

In my experience, save file editing is not particularly hard, however it is a barrier that people may not want to deal with and I'm incredibly biased considering I haven't had to deal with it in a while. Having it as a variable would lower the pressure and requirement to do that, while still letting the gameplay be more speedrun-esque.

Allow with variable.

^ what zinq said

• I would like to have the option to play the game in an optimized way, without it being completely meaningless, even if the run would be completely overlooked in comparison to runs done without it.

I think save editing should be allowed with a variable so current and future runs can be differentiated from runs that use a save edit.

My Reasoning: I started my speedrunning this game by trying to get a gauntlet run, but the use of mods and abysmal rng pushed me away to do any%. The terrible rng this category suffers from would be fine if it took a minute before you knew you had to reset, but you can get to stage 5 and not yet know if your run will be ok to finish. I would love to run commando or engineer in gauntlet, but unless save editing can be allowed to mitigate the insane time it takes to get one run with them I will have to just do different categories. Not everyone has the time to sink hours everyday into speedrunning and the skill of the player will not change with better rng. If you are efficient at looting you will end up getting better and more loot in a short time compared to someone that is slow at looting or just takes tp drops. In my eyes save editing to get better rng benefits everyone equally.

Keep complete save file. Changing the save file would just be moving the goalposts

Personally, I think keeping it to a complete save file will be better for the longevity of the speedrun categories. As some of the others have pointed out, I think keeping it this way makes for the 'god runs' way more satisfying and mind blowing for people to watch. Also it keeps the game true to the nature of normal risk of rain 2 runs.

Require a completed savefile.

I think this category should keep the essence of the gauntlet mod and its simplicity, having to create an optimal pool of items would be a whole new aspect added to the category.

Require a completed savefile.

Gauntlet should stay gauntlet. Run another category if you don't like this.

Figured I'd post my thoughts since I've been running these for awhile.

Require a completed savefile.

Mooddie pretty much summed it up. Gauntlet races require 100% completed savefiles and the mod automatically makes sure the user has everything unlocked. If you don't want a full savefile, just stick to e8 over in Category Extension and call it a day. There's already a category for that.

I vote for requiring a complete save file. I personally enjoy the gauntlet category as it is and feel complete save file differentiates the category more from other categories. Having higher odds of good items would also change how the category is run in general (e.g. allowing more greed and less optimization as cranidos mentioned in the discussion thread).