Hey there,
As far as i'm researching, the current IGT timer in the game seems to be relatively accurate on each platform.
Because of that, I don't see the need to split them into different platforms the only exception here is the PS2 port which does not have feature like instant switching..etc.
There is a way that we could confirm this by:
1) Record Consoles/PC for testing IGT. 2) Get a perfect three-eye cycle 3) Save the progress and check the Play Time confirming the accuracy
Sorry for the late response.
I mostly left them as is because there was a discussion on switching to RTA as the primary timing method. People were also unsure, at the time, if one system had an advantage or not, as the game was brand new.
I don't mind combining the platforms, if we can can agree to sticking with IGT in the future.
I would be of the opinion that IGT is the primary timer, as the game has it, but RTA separates who is faster, should times be the same in-game. In the event of that, the person with the faster console would win. Not sure what people think about that??
Generally RTA is the best factor, IMO. I dislike IGT as a whole.
Can you confirm what you mean for PC and PS4 IGT differences, Morpha?
There is definitely a difference between the two. RTA should be used as a means of breaking the ties for IGT being once people get clean runs it'll be the only way to determine more precise times.
IGT typically isn't enough of a difference on PC vs. Console to make it a pay-to-win situation, especially with older games like this one. We had the discussion on DMC1 a while back of whether or not we should separate, and the consensus was basically no because of the following criteria:
-the most time to be saved on PC vs. Console was only seconds difference, not enough for a wholly pay2win situation -it doesn't take a supercomputer to run the game -the modern versions of the game go for reasonable prices
Pretty much the case with this game too. If we're gonna look at the boards as an indication of how little hardware makes a difference, both the Normal and Ultimate WRs for PC are slower than their console counterparts. This includes RTA.
Then you're not understanding the point of my post. I'm acknowledging that there's a difference and PC will have an advantage. But what I'm also saying is that in the end there is still plenty of competition to be had despite this, similar to Devil May Cry's leaderboards, where 3 of the top 10 (and 1 of the top 3) times are consoles times, because again, the difference isn't even to make this wholly pay2win. If you want an example of a game where that's truly the case and separating was mandatory, look at Devil May Cry 5.
If we're looking at ultimate. this is what the board would look like with a merged leaderboard.
With the exception of you vs. Cool, there's no one on this board that wouldn't "deserve" to be in the spot they're at. Sure you can look at Rayden and say, "Well a 3rd place time on console is a 9th place time here!" but then you look at the difference between him and the next PS4 guy (Cool) and their IGT difference is 4m, so it makes sense. Let's also look at IGT vs RTA discrepancies across the board.
PS4 Yori - 4m42s PC Morpha - 4m24s PS4 Cool - 4m39s PC Jadu - 4m45s PC Lexo - 4m29s PC Toast - 4m39s PC Spoopy - 4m17s PC Sleep - 4m16s PS4 Rayden - 5m2s PS4 Hell - 5m1s PS4 Rio - 4m31s PS4 Jerf - 5m17s
Then look at the WRs for Normal PC vs. Normal PS4
PC Loner - 5m17s PS4 hinge - 4m4s
If you're going to argue about advantages, then your argument has to include us having to accept ties because RTA has clear hardware differences in it, even if it's just by seconds. Some PCs even have advantages over other PCs. Loner's PC is running the game on the level of a PS4, so it isn't fair to him to combine boards, but he's the one suggesting it because the game goes by IGT. There will always be hardware advantages involved in running. Has anyone ran this game on a PS4 Pro yet with SSD to see how much faster the RTA is there (I don't see the option for PS4 Pro as opposed to PS4 in the submission variables)? Because if so then should PS4 Pro have its own boards? And yet, we acknowledge that Switch is just out of the running for being competitive as opposed to the other consoles. Why are we not advocating for Switch separate boards? Obviously because that's pointless even though it's technically "fair".
Long story short, It's not like you're saving literal minutes RTA/IGT just by playing the game on PC, you have to have good hardware too (and even then it's just seconds). Same goes with any console (and again, no one is advocating for Switch to have its own boards so unless we do that the idea of separation doesn't hold up). IGT primary, either just accept the ties at high level or tack on RTA (which is inherently disadvantageous) to break ties. It's not that difficult to figure out.
Since when you have not done meme runs just for the sake of so called place that x deserve anyway.
At this point you are not really listening well Morpha and ignored all the strong points that cosmic made. And started to make things more up and using the word "feel" rather than stating a fact.
like if you really think consoles are same then you are severely mistaken.
Like Loner said, if you're not actually gonna read what I've said, and instead accuse loner and I of wanting to have hardware advantage (even though you're for RTA which has inherent hardware advantage), then I don't know what to tell you. I haven't even finished a run, and Loner drops to 4th on a combined board. His time is also 4m better than the ps4 time below him. He has literally nothing to gain from bringing this up (nor do I) especially considering his hardware.
"And how does a PC load like a PS4?"
Because his loads on his laptop aren't as good as other computers, that's how. Look at his RTA vs IGT discrepancy which is almost a full minute slower than other PC times and and it's even behind some PS4 times.
Edit: I'm not gonna discuss this further btw. I think I've made my points well enough for mods to come to an informed decision. I'll run the game regardless.
Hello,
I'd like to keep this discussion going, since I have reached into conclusion that not only HD Remaster platforms should be merged together but also the ranking should be decided in real time. Once the merge is done I'd highly recommend to put normal difficulty of this version as a main category rather than PS2 version. Because it has more runners. Therefore, this will make the board look better and more competitive.
I tried to reach out hinge for his opinion regarding this he pointed me out note these records.
Ultimate Category :
- 1st Jadusable2 Realtime 55m 45s IGT51m 00s (PC Version)
- 3rd Morpha26 Realtime 55m 32s IGT51m 00s (PS4 Version)
I have used this website to check side by side comparison for a reference and it was pretty clear to me that there is no difference in load, puzzles, menuing..etc between the PC version and the remaster version.
The problem with IGT is much like everyone stated before, it does not provide enough details (milliseconds and seconds). Changing it into RTA should avoid all the issues within this run.
I agree with Loner/Cosmic, RTA doesn't provide a huge enough advantage to warrant ignoring as an option.
@Morpha26 I don't recall ever rejecting RTA, much less that insistent about it.
As I've said 4 months ago, I don't mind merging. I've mostly left it, as is, for there to be a consensus among the runners. The remaster was still relatively new, at the time, but if people believe merging console and PC, and switching to RTA, is the best course of action, then I will make it so.
I am in agreement that we should switch over to RTA for timing.
So playing PC again I do not think the merge should happen
55:28 PS4 (22 attempts) 54:48 PC (3 attempts)
seems pretty free for PC players to beat PS4.
as for RTA. I still feel this should happen as PB is more easier for RTA. than waiting a entire Minute to PB on IGT.
but I do feel IGT should stay shown
Yet another black hole loop
This isn't surprising because you already ran the game a lot. Just because you made less attempts in PC doesn't mean its free.
It looks fine to me. Hinge only took about 5 attempts to take WR on console category. Why ? Because he is good at this game and worked hard for it before the remaster.
You have to take into account that not every single moment in onimusha esp with how fast you kill enemies or how fast you bait them into reaction is consistent. RNG exists in every speed game no matter what. A mistake from fortinbras alone costs you a lot.
IGT can still be shown RTA should be the main timing method. The splits on remaster are arbitrary. The difference isn't huge in time I already posted side to side comparison, If you want the best time then run on the best platform.
Agree on switching to rta and merging the platforms. Just have a platform variable to show who has the best time on what platform.
Again, RTA is inherently an unfair method of timing, so you cannot logically be in favor of switching to RTA, while also claiming you are interested in fairness for console runners.
then explain how I cant 54 RTA PS4, but I can on PC. ill go live with another attempt right now lol
You really do not read, or you just are choosing to ignore what I'm saying. One version is faster than the other, that's what I'm saying. I frankly don't care if one RTA is possible on x version but not on another. Whatever is fastest, is fastest, point blank. If you're concerned about a level playing field on pc vs console, you have to also be concerned about the pc vs pc even playing field. A playing field that would be worsened with RTA. I have already said before that Loner's PC has loads as slow as a console, so he would be at just as much of a disadvantage. But in switching to rta over igt, we just accept that for the sake of a cleaner board etc. If all the top runs end up as PC, then that's fine because that's just how RTA works. Better hardware/versions of a game wins out.
I was answering loner not you. Im actually with you cosmic.
but my time difference aint over "me being a good player" I can do a PS4 run right now and still be in a higher RTA
then Tomorrow do PC and have it lower.
I do get what your saying cosmic. and I mean. im a PC player. Aint gonna hurt me .
what I am worried about is people LIKE hinge. who only plays PS4. cause this difference is gonna get ahead of them. BIG time.
but I can see what your saying at the same time
theres also bowie doing runs on a Nintendo switch dude. PC vs Switch is just not fair
Game costs like 20 usd full price. If you want to be serious about speedrunning, most boards suggest you just get the pc copy anyway. And having a category for every release just turns boards into a bloated joke. If this were a bigger game, I'd maybe be arguing otherwise. But we have less than like 8-10 runners per category. So it's very whatever to me.
