To make sure we're all attempting the same thing the same way, we should discuss the rules.

The first thing I wanted to figure out was if quick save and quick load would be allowed during a run. I ask, since I believe this feature is only present in the PC and PS3 version. Whereas the GameCube, Xbox, and PS2, had checkpoint saves. I imagine dying during a run won't be considered the end of the run given how insane that requirement seems. So could you resume from your last autosave?

Another discussion has brought up removing the cutscenes from the game, due to their difficulties with recording software. But it seems widely considered that would be modifying the game and should be disallowed. However this will likely lead to unrecorded/black video where the cutscene would have been.

My final word is about the end of the game. The finish is currently when the green "Mission Complete" screen is shown. But the very last level doesn't actually display it like the other levels. Instead, depending on which level you consider the last (Presidential Palace or 3 bonus levels?), the level ends by playing a 23 second cutscene which displays the green "Mission Complete" screen 16 seconds from the last input.

I may be jumping the gun a bit given how few runs we have submitted, but it'd be good to get some ideas thrown around.

First, I think quicksaving and quickloading would ruin the whole appeal of speedrunning the game. To get a world record time, you would just quicksave right before something that's inconsistent or completely random. Then you'd attempt it over and over again until you got it. Not only is that not fun to do, it's not fun to watch and it takes all the skill out of learning the movement and strategies of actually running the game. Reverting to an autosave should be allowed however, because you've already completed the segment of the run before it, and generally in autosave positions, the game has to completely load the next map, so it doesn't impact the game in any way.

The cutscene removal has actually become a bit of a snag. CotySA and I have been talking about it a bit, and while he wouldn't care if it was used, some people clearly do. Two other things about this topic, sometimes on my PC the game will crash when these videos are played. I don't currently know the reason. The other thing is that the method I've mentioned in the first forum post, did not work for CotySA. While I am able to rename the files and they will not play, he is unable for some reason. We looked into it for a while, and tried a lot of different things, even outright deleting the files. No dice for him.

From what I understand about the end of the game, only one of the bonus levels is available on the PS2 version, and ALL of them are available for XBOX through a download on XBOX Live (A, now, dead service) and for PC (Only as a patch included in the limited collector's edition of CT). I believe based on these factors alone, timing should end as soon as you complete the Presidential Palace mission, after shooting Nikoladze, touching the double door.

Also, I don't think you're jumping the gun. Rules should be established.

Also also, I think it'd be a good idea to EITHER: Add a new category to this game called "any% segmented" and add a parameter to that category of Normal or Hard, OR: Add a parameter to both of the current categories to denote if the run is segmented or not.

Thank you for reading.

Quicksave/quickload is widely used in RTA speedrunning, so I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be allowed. IMO every feature the game provides and allow you to change should be used in a speedrun (except for cheats).

I agree with Ash on the quicksave/quickload. It's almost too efficient and would make inconsistent strategies a lot more viable. Ultimately I want to see someone run a near-perfect game every time, taking backup strats when something doesn't work out. I wouldn't want to see someone mash the quickload 10+ times because a wall jump keeps failing.

I'd be happy to look into the cutscene removal, even if it's just for practice. But it does seem that a valid run should be inclusive of loading cutscenes even if we have to spam through them. This way we at least attempt to share some similarities with the console versions. :P

The end of the game being at the double doors sounds fine. After all if the cutscenes aren't recorded by all software anyway it'd be pointless to wait any longer. I've created another thread about game goals (100% and Any%), and will look into adding the extra variable indicating segmented or RTA.

as much as i agree that using quick save/load would render the runs less interesting and way too easy, i have to play devil's advocate here for a sec and agree that in games like Doom, they allow their usage, however, in other community like for metroid games, saving and loading are totally forbidden... so its up to each community to define their guidelines, and in this case i would side with ppl saying that using what is basically save-state should not be allowed...

now the same way i wouldn't run doom using save-state, nor stop myself from running a metroid game using save stations, i would understand ppl that would like to run a splinter cell game using the build in options of quick saves/loads, so i don't know how we could accomodate both groups, but there's should be a way, like creating separate leaderboards for exemple...

i mean, in the end it is up to everyone to runs games the way they please, and worst case scenario, one categories will simply become way more popular than the others... for exemple, its possible to run SM or alttp using heavely broken glitches that make those game boring and pointless to run, which is why most ppl will run those classics using NMG rules as their main "Any%" categories... but they still keeping tracks of those less interesting categories since they are still ligit ones...

the same way i'm currently running DA actively again, and i wouldn't use the quick load features for the life of me, cuz it would ruins all the fun and challenge out of it... but would i get a better run doing so, absolutly, would i be able to put together a run on Elite mode in a reasonable among of time, once again, sure, ... but what would be the point of doing that... now, would i try the categories that allow save-states, just by morbid curiousity, to see what kind of time i could get even tho i thing of it as shameful if it ever become a reality... tbh, maybe...

so to resume, i hope we will come to the conclusion that using what is basically save-state should only be a tool for practice, but if we ever come to the conclusion that it should also be considered, i would not agree, but i would understand why its considered ligit... ;D

I'd be up for allowing a seperate category that allows quicksave + quickload, if people are interested, but I probably wouldn't want to run it :P

Why are there no ps2 runs submitted for this game? I assume there must be some disadvantage?

All consoles are considerably slower than PC in all classic SC games, including this one. GameCube just happened to be what these individuals had to play. I have a PS2 run in Pandora Tomorrow, and so does YayMarsha, despite the fact that both XBox and PC are faster. There's nothing stopping you from running any platform and getting a "Platform WR."

This is just from memory, but I think PS2 SC actually has an extra level thanks unique to the platform, too.