While watching a livestream by XCHAOSEDGEX earlier tonight, the topic of using 2 controllers to save a bit of time in Any% came up. I was told by another runner (Kaons) that using 2 controllers is not allowed, but I couldn't see it anywhere in the rules for either Any% or 100%.
My question is, is it an actual rule that using 2 controllers is not allowed? If so, this should be made clear in the rules for Any% and 100%.
Additionally, should it be allowed if it can save a bit of time, or should something like that be designated to another category entirely? For example, we could have a category for 2 Players and one for 1 Player 2 Controllers.
I figured it would be best to get the community consensus for something like this because it might be important, especially if potential WR runs could use it to save some time.
Using 2 controllers is banned
They can be added into the rules, so if a mod doesn't get around to seeing this I'll DM them and inform. It is standard across most games that 1P2C is banned so I'm not sure if its necessary to specify
It should remain banned as it can be considered an external advantage outside of normal gameplay (you wouldn't 1P2C under normal circumstances ever)
It would be another category if anyone wanted to run it, but I doubt it would be added as a leaderboard due to lack of interest + anything outside of any% and 100% has historically not been added, and people who do runs outside of any and 100 just keep track of their PB on their own
I'd be hyped to see another category for 1p2c. Usually, in games where 1p2c can be advantageous, there's another leaderboard/category for it. I'd love to see 1p2c-runs on SRC for this game!
I was not aware that 1P2C was typically not allowed for most games. The reason that I was curious was mainly because I found a way to save some time by using a 2nd controller to briefly (and easily) take control of your partner to speed up the process of the Dynablade autoscroller skip. (If I was to name the technique, I'd call it Quick Grab.) I made a Twitch highlight of me testing my theory a little while ago, which I have below. My stream was a bit wonky that day, so I can delve into the details further if anyone is interested.
I see where Gumdramon is coming from in the sense that you'd likely never do that sort of thing in normal gameplay, and additionally that there may be issues with confirming that one player is actually doing all the inputs for both controllers instead of two people. However, I think that limited time-saving tricks like this should be allowed since they do not require any real skill to achieve (simply holding one button on another controller) and even if it's only for that one instance in the run, the repercussions of having another player press that one button for a few seconds is minimal to the integrity of the run that uses that trick (since having a player-controlled partner is normally disadvantageous). Put simply, it's an out-of-the-box trick that saves time that anyone can do and doesn't make the run any more difficult to moderate when used.
I would like to address the option of additional categories, which I personally am a fan of. If Quick Grab is the only instance of a 2nd controller being useful to a run, I'd suggest that it be allowed in the normal Any% and 100% categories as an exception to the "No 1P2C" rule (which should also be mentioned in the category rules if so, such as "No 1P2C with the exception of using Quick Grab"). If there are other instances of 1P2C being useful that are more complex and not easily achievable by one person, then another category for 1P2C should be made. This is a decision that will need to be made carefully, because if there are any other 1P2C techniques that are discovered later on, it becomes much messier to make a new category since the change could potentially invalidate some runs if something like Quick Grab was allowed before but is now only allowed in a separate category.
I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on this.
It doesn't matter how minor the change is, any external advantage is banned in an RTA speedrun unless otherwise specified (which in this case would make a new category). I can think of loads of ways 1P2C that can bust the game, like the absurdly high damage output of Wheelie Rider and complete control over partner for quick kills.
This site also is following the same ruleset as Japan, so it isn't a change that can happen without their consent. I guarantee that they would also think that it should remain banned.
As with everything in speedrunning, you are perfectly free to use whatever ruleset you want, you just have to concede the ability to post to the leaderboard.
Okay, I can see where you're coming from. If those tricks have the potential to be used in a speedrun, it would be best to leave runs that use 2 controllers in a separate category rather than make exceptions to the current Any% / 100% rules. I'd still prefer to see the explicit mention of banning 2 controllers in their rules though just to be clear (since it can't hurt).
Out of curiosity, you mentioned that this site uses the same ruleset as Japan. Are there other sites where Japanese runners upload their runs and/or have a community set up for speedrunning that collaborates with Speedrun.com? Is there communication between the two sites for consistency? And are there any other sites that the site collaborates with for consistency?
Sorry it took so long to reply, didn't get a notif
I think Japanese runners have a community over at Niconico, and most of them submit to speedrun.com if they have a video. To my knowledge all top runs are on SRC at the moment besides mikan's who has a 34:57 any% (no video)
