Hi guys!
After a break, I decided to come back and try with some runs, beginning with any% WR attempts. I did it, but I was only 3 second faster than AJ. The problem is that my in-game time without loads was 15 (!) seconds better. So, I decided to compare mine and AJ's runs and see if my loads were slower (they were by a slight margin but it doesn't matter). But, after I compared first levels frame by frame, I discovered something that is suspicious.
In my opinion, AJ's run is fake as he manipulated time. By every second, every couple frames, his timer was going down faster. As a result, he finished the level second faster than me, and remember that the first level's IGT is 1:11. Basically, you can lose time in this level but in my opinion, it is possible ONLY by missing buttons in menu - finishing the level and beginning the next level slower.
Then, I compared my older run with my newest run only to see that there was no time loss. So, I decided to compare other speedrunners from top5. As it turned out, their IGT overall was better than AJ's which is really important. The first level - the same case - they played the level in the exact same way like me and lost time just like me in comparison to AJ.
I recorded a video in which I compared AJ's first lvl with others, you can watch it here:
What is your opinion - did AJ cheat in some way? Feel free to share opinions.
If mods decide that there is nothing wrong wiith AJ's run and his run is legit, please consider adding in-game time to the main leaderboard for all categories.
/edit Remember that DoltLikeAJ was a NFH1 moderator when he took the World Record and accepted his run by himself. He could do that so that nobody noticed what the did and the fact that he cheated went unnoticed.
Yes, it's fake! Tutorial% Also fake.
Hi,
I have watched your video and yes it is clear that he is moving faster than anyone else compared to. I have already talked to AJ a few months back about his tutorial run and he answered in the comments of his run about it, he said he didn't cheat, which I believe. This game is old and the loading times seem PC dependent, therefore they will tend to a better RTA time. This being said, I will take your suggestion in adding In-game time to the main leaderboards, which will hopefully resolve the issue with someone having faster loading times just because they have a better/faster PC than others. I will retime all of the runs on the leaderboard and add the In-game time to all of them, this could take some time as there are a lot of videos out there so please be patient with it. If you have any more questions/suggestions for me feel free to ask here or either DM me, both are fine.
Thanks.
In response to your post, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you and AJ's explanations. And I disagree that a faster PC was a factor in this case.
First of all,
This game is old and the loading times seem PC dependent, therefore they will tend to a better RTA time.
Were you talking about loads between the levels? Because my post was not about these loads. Of course, I mentioned loads and the fact that AJ's load were slightly faster than mine. The AJ's load before 1st level was about 0.1 seconds faster. But if we consider that there were 9 loads before levels in any% run, then AJ gained only a second in RTA. As I said, loads are not a big factor then.
Keep in mind that as I said, my IGT was 15 seconds better, but RTA only 3 seconds better. So there is no way that AJ gained so much advantage because of loads.
Secondly,
If we say that a faster PC was deciding, then AJ must have a NASA computer. I compared 5 speedrunners with him. And I don't think that all guys have wooden computers. The fact that all runs have been streamed is the proof.
Thirdly,
After @max007_10 mentioned about tutorial%, I did the similar analysis of tutorial% runs. I compared AJ's and Komar's runs. And the same exact thing happened in these runs - every second, AJ's game was going faster by 1-3 frames.
And the most important thing:
I timed AJ's 1st lvl's real time from the beginning when timer starts to the level choice menu after ending the level. We all know that 1st's lvl IGT is 1:11. AJ completed this lvl slightly under less than 1:11. Remember that besides the whole level sequence, real-timer includes menuing - ending the level in 2 parts when you leave the house and confirm ending the level.
In addition, I checked if a second in game timer goes down correctly every second in reality. It did for all except AJ. To sum up, the faster computer couldn't be the factor. So, because of the faster computer, AJ's 1 second in game timer was going faster than 1 second IRL? No, I don't think so. The game couldn't speed itself up because one has a faster PC. It has just no rights to happen.
AJ denied cheating while talking to you. I get it. But after analyzing tutorial% and more analyzis on 1-1, I'm almost 100% sure that AJ cheated.
I agree with you adding IGT but in my opinion, taking into consideration all the proofs, AJ's all leading runs should be erased from the leaderboard.
To all people who are the part of NFH speedrunning community - feel free to express your opinions about the topic.
I have proof that AJ cheated on Any% and Tutorial%
Confirmed by VuVuZela
It does not depend on the power of the PC
I know such a cheat program is called "Cheat Engine" It is forbidden for speedrun
He used Speedhack to speed up the gameplay. His speedhack was 1.01 (Any%)
I decided to try to play at this speed Any% I got 22:04 (RTA) I can say that it is physically impossible for ordinary speedrunners! And here is the Tutorial% Speedhack stood at 1.05
I also decided to try to play at this speed Tutorial% I got 2:34 which is also impossible!
And you can also change the speed of the Neighbor and Woody in the game files. It is forbidden to change it.
How it all looks look carefully at this video
Good job @max007_10 , I never thought of speedhack as a tool that AJ could've used.
Hey everybody,
Since my times were already rejected, I don't have much to say. I'm not blind I also saw the difference in the comparision videos made by you. Avram contacted me a couple of times, all I said to him is he's the mod around here, he does whatever he sees good to do. He did and I accept. You made your points, I don't see any disrespect in your comments, the only thing I expected at least tag me if you call me a cheater/speedhacker or whatever.
Well technically one person did it on Discord, but it was more of a harrassing and that is the only reason I'm here. Don't spam or threaten me with this bullsh*t. Out of respect which he didn't earn at all, I keep his name to myself, but this is Neighbours from Hell, not the GTA community. It's not fun to harass someone.
One thought for approving my own runs... Who should've done it guys? :D The OG mod who was inactive for 2 years already when I entered the scene? Until Komar arrived I was the only active mod and I accepted pretty much every run, all I was checking if the runner starts/stops the timer correctly (retimed if needed) and if they do the necessary levels. (Fininshing season 3.) The reason I approved my own runs even with other active mod(s) is that they were most of the time watching the runs live on my channel and they were like: "okay, you can approve that, I saw the whole thing". Same goes the other way.
I already explained Kikons that one thing I used was a RamDisk emulator or whatever it is called, which was used by KeeperRavager too which to be honest uses the exe file of the game, but I didn't really have any concerns about it. We didn't have a ruleset back then and I was pretty new to speedrunning. Now after 5-6 years of experience in different games, engines, categories etc. I'd instareject a run like that as a mod. The best time I achieved was a 2:40 (but I only submitted my 2:42 before the 2:36 cause laziness and stuff) which now would be a 5x tied WR. It really grinded my gears, so I asked KeeperRavager back then: how? Then he explained this RamDisk stuff, he believed that it makes the game load faster since it uses your RAM, not your HDD/SSD/USB whatever. I tried and immeadietly got 2:38, then eventually 2:36. I was happy with the tied WR, also I saw the original video of his, sadly it's not available anymore, it could prove a lot of things. It might mess around with the FPS which made the game run faster. Before you say that's a cheap excuse, actually it is a thing in a lot of games incl. an other speedgame of mine (the Harry Potter series), you can even ask Avram why we lock FPS there. I'm not making chaos theories... just a thought.
At this point I'd say speedrunning is in general RTA timing, obviously there are exceptions. The last couple of years we had such things as load time removals so everybody have their fair chance to shine even with a toaster PC. I still don't know if it's possible to make one for this game, if so... go for it. But making the leaderboards IGT will most likely kill the competitiveness, since every single person will have the same time. I mean there is only one solution for every level (see Level Leaderboards where every damn level is a 5-10-way tied WR). I don't have a word here anymore, I removed myself as a mod, but let's be reasonable. The only difference between the runs is pretty much the menuing. (Yes of course, the loading times as well for those who have weaker PCs.)
Since I'm pretty sure I'm on a "blacklist" from now on, unless I prove the opposite which I won't... I just ask you to let at least my current time sit on the boards and I also wish a good luck for future runs which I hope there'll be and this wasn't just only a witch hunt against my times. Don't let this game sit for years!
I'm glad you found the courage to respond even though you were not tagged - my bad there.
First of all, as the member of this community, I appreciate you having done the job as moderator in the past - it's you who accepted my run after all. Also, you've probably kept that game alive here.
So nobody but you could accept the run then, I get it. But didn't you think back then that the run was illegal? You gained the advantage with that DiskRAM or whatever the thing is. As I said, all guys in the video had better IGT, but worse RTA, and Tetris who was right behind you was 6 seconds behind. We know that you have been speedrunning years ago, but years after, when there come new speedrunners, it's not fair that people with better IGT are behind. When I was running with new strats recently, I thought "oh I'm gonna get sub22" and I didn't. That pissed me off and led to finding out (by accident) you "playing the game faster". And if I didn't come back, your record could be standing much longer. I was shocked that nobody could beat your time after 5 years, now I know why...
You admitted to using an external app - which in your eyes isn't and wasn't cheating. Now, let's erase word "cheating" and say you did not cheat. However, you still gained a big advantage with that app and I find it unfair that players with better IGT were way behind you.
You have the point that IGT may kill that category but I think that IGT leaderboard is kind of fair because then it allows all people to compete equally. It was proved that wooden PC's only impact loading, not the level flow.
About erasing your time - were I moderator, I'd bring back any% run only if times are sorted by IGT. If not, it would be unfair to other speedrunners. Tutorial% run shouldn't be back. I'm not the person to make the decision here but in my opinion - any% only if there is IGT leaderboard; tutorial% - hell :) no.
All in all, after the case is practically closed, I suggest we all made a vote whether NFH 1 leaderboard should be sorted by IGT or RTA.
And @Avram35 - I suggest you added a new rule to "Game rules" for whole NFH1 and NFH2 too - "Any external applications (eg. RAMDisk, speedhacks) that could help gaining an advantage are forbidden".
But didn't you think back then that the run was illegal?
Honestly? No. And the reasons are dead simple: I was a noob in speedrunning and I put myself in high water by modding my first speedgame. Since I personally asked KeeperRavager who held the WRs (different ruleset and non-existent categories, but he was the man) and he told me he used this stuff. Since his times were accepted way before me, I thought it's okay. Also the game didn't have a proper ruleset and I never thought of that even though I'm basically an IT guy.
I admit that I made a mistake with that, for that I apologize.
You admitted to using an external app - which in your eyes isn't and wasn't cheating.
It is now. Now that I saw the difference. Even if it hurts my ego to lose that WR, if it's not fair I won't defend it. In this topic you guys are 100% right. In this case I'll probably run through the game once, just to have a proper and legit (meaning RAMDisk-less) time on the boards, also my current personal best has no video anymore and I don't want to be completely disappear.
If you can figure out what timing system will you use in the future, I wish you the very best luck in this game.
Hi everyone,
I will also comment on this issue, as I undertook my own analysis of AJ's run a few weeks ago. I talked to him about this and ended up saying that the "strangely speeding up game" was the effect of RAMDisk - fine, but I further didn't understand how AJ's game was strangely accelerating at random times. Now I know that there was something wrong after all. Here's a link to my video from under the deleted AJ run from Tutorial%:
No problem, would like to see more speedrunners playing this game and this community grow.
@kikons78 this is what I saw vs Komar's. Good comparison.
Moreover, let's not forget that KeeperRavager did use that tool too as AJ said. If AJ's run was deleted, Keeper's runs should be as well. There cannot be only one person punished.
Opinions?
I have made a discord server for the games, the voting for the new ruleset will be held there. Here's the link: https://discord.com/invite/WG9vEkAtB
I also thought about the fake race and compared them on my computer, after all, I was not mistaken, thank you!
