Hello everyone! I'd like to finally get this topic sorted out so I hope to have as many opinions and arguments as possible not only from the well-known speedrunners but also moderators and even casual spectators.
Obviously for the past god knows how long, there has been a heated debate on the problem of major optional skips and the fact that said topic still raises controversies only proves that there has to be some decisive action taken (doesn't matter whether it stays or something changes). There are many skips inside the game but Climbless and Rocket Storage seem to have the most infuriating factors involved in the art of pulling them off that they make the community enjoy certain categories less. I'm going to talk about Climbless for the most part since it's the trick I have the most experience with.
My first point is the way you get those tricks to work. Climbless jump in Autumn Plains is said to be possible yet even the best runners have never gotten it. The biggest factor that makes this trick possible is the "bug" of longer jump that you get after 75 (90 for the sake of it) minutes IGT. As it's most commonly used in Any%, there's a massive risk of losing said jump because you failed level storage and had to restart the game. That would make your time completely wasted and it's the main reason why people don't feel any attraction to Any%.
Okay, but the other side will respond with: "just go with the normal route then?". In my opinion it's an unfair practice since it's literally impossible to beat a well-optimized climbless time with even the best possible nonclimbless run. Given the skip I discovered yesterday in Breeze Harbor that's possible only with longer jump () and saves about 10 seconds, it only makes the category even more unbearable for people going the normal route. Same thing can be said about Rocket Storage too - you don't have to do it, but you can say goodbye to your world record (or just very good time) dreams.
Now, how to solve this problem. Obviously, there are plenty of ways and arguments but I'll present only the most popular ones and maybe other contributors will come up with something more viable. So, the first one in climbless' case would be allowing console injector. Console injector allows us to change the speed of the game - that would shorten the time needed to get longer jump from around 75 minutes to 4-5 minutes which would be a much more acceptable value. The problem it would create though is an ability to cheat by setting the speed value to like 1.01. I think the solution to this problem would be as simple as stating in rules that the runner has to provide a proof of no speed alteration after getting the longer jump (command history at the start/end of the run).
Another solution that in my, as well as many other runners', opinion would be viable is simply splitting the categories to Any% Climbless/Any% No Climbless or Any% Rocket Storage/Any% No Rocket Storage for 3. I don't think the argument that "splitting the categories would be bad because there wouldn't be enough people playing them" is viable as I know many people who don't play a certain category ONLY because of how big of an advantage these tricks give while being very inconsistent/factor reliant. For climbless case, I also don't think that an argument of "but it'd be stupid since you'd have to restart the game before every run (for hypothetical no climbless category)" is right neither because you can still have the longer jump but go the normal no climbless route anyway.
I specifically left banning said tricks for last because it's popular but I think it's really not needed. These tricks exist and aren't considered flat out cheating, it's just exploiting game's unintended mechanics. The main problem is that they are very factor reliant but save considerable amount time that can't be overlooked nor can it be saved without pulling them off. I'd like to know what the mods and other people think about this topic because I think it really needs to be sorted out once and for all. Take care everyone!
I don't think my word should be taken at any higher value than any other runner, especially as I'm not active in the game anymore, but I'll share my thoughts.
Whether climb skip or rocket storage is used or not, it's still a means to finish the goal of the categories. A category split should usually have a very different aim for the run. I think a variable would do just fine, like there is on the (PS1) Spyro 2 100% leaderboard. It really is just another route option. If you'd like to compare to runs that don't use climb skip or rocket storage, it is very very easy to do so with filters. I often hear the argument "nobody uses filters" and I don't think that's true. I frequently use them when there are variables involved. Hell, even just to see what the PAL Spyro 1 120% or the NTSC Crash 2 100% leaderboards might look like.
Discussion is a very good thing. Thank you for sharing your thoughts in a well-organized manner.
As far as I understand, a major skip/trick is defined as something that fundamentally changes the way the run is played. For example, in Spyro 1 balloonist skip cuts off 80% of the game. And in the case of Spyro 2 100%/100% NLS the fact whether you use Level Storage or not completely changes the way you approach almost every level.
That is what brings me to the examples of Climbless and Rocket Storage. Running 2 Any% Climbless means you can miss out on 700 (?) gems and you have to do that jump in Autumn Plains and do Magma Cone without climbing (which is hard enough in itself imo). I understand why people would hesitate to run a category that is so tricky to set up and get a good time in, though I'm not sure if it would make sense to make a category split there. (I've never ran 2 any% but only seen lots of runs of it so I can't really argue on a level of how the run feels)
For Rocket Storage Route you miss out on 1000 gems and do Crystal Islands back-to-front kinda. Also it's worth mentioning that there is a backup in case you miss Rocket Storage that involves getting a purple orb from Spike.(Is it called Projectile Storage now?(NPS)) And that would essentially put the run back on "no rocket storage-pace". So there is an argument to be made that no one is forced to get a rocket from Scorch as it is a trick that saves a minute which you can fail like everything else.
tl;dr It would maybe make sense to make a category split for climbless, but not for Rocket Storage
Would love to hear others thoughts about this.
I don't think that climbless being split is what we should be doing imo. Climbless changes 1 level (magma cone) and makes you do 1 different jump (Autumn plains jump). Where the big issue that comes out is the 90 min jump thing. There are a few skips (idol springs, groxu's breeze) that become possible/more viable with the 90 min jump. Waiting the 90 mins into getting into icy speedway on your first run for level storage is a huge problem. You wait the 90 mins, play for about 30 mins and then softlock your game on essentially a coin flip. You then have to wait again. This is where a thing like a 2 any clause for using the console injector could be useful and having the person have to show that they are typing slowmo 1 and their command history before runs for example. I don't think it should be split for similar reasons that nbs shouldn't be split if you don't do mouse and keyboard strats, or if you get rocket storage or not. Like what has been said earlier a split should happen when it completely changes the run, i.e., 100% vs 100% NLS
As a former runner of the game, I'd like to give my 2 cents while I decided to check out what's happening here.
I think the best approach would be Jumpy's suggestion of adding variables for both Climbless in Spyro 2 and Rocket Storage in Spyro 3 if people really wanted that. I don't think splitting the categories is necessary as I don't think the glitches are major, and while waiting 90 minutes can be annoying, the climbless route technically is possible without the glitch (as it's been done on console multiple times and I got it like once on PC before) and with the new strats being developed with it, you'd need to wait that time regardless of route you've chosen. As for Spyro 3, I don't have much to say as I never ran any% of that game in any capacity.
