Moving the discussion here to isolate it from the "The Site" thread. Please keep this specific topic out of that topic for now if possible.
Those posts are here: http://www.speedrun.com/The_Site/thread/63nr7/157#2xyae
The issue of Megaman Leaderboards obviously has a lot of history, and the situation has always been suboptimal situation for a variety of reasons. API discussions have been had a few times and haven't happened due to a variety of reasons, including the time, effort, and coordination required.
The current argument goes something like the following: 1: Some users are of the opinion SRC should have moderation reflecting MMLB. 2: Some MMLB moderators don't want to spend additional effort synchronizing runs on SRC. 3: Some MMLB moderators decide not to let people submit on SRC because they don't want to use it or synchronize it.
It is and has been my opinion that there are some number of people who play Megaman games that want to track all of their runs on one site or with one API. I still find it ridiculous for users of another site to claim ownership of a board on a different site and tell other people they can't use it. I personally do not sanction the use of "NO RUNS HERE", I've been minimally tolerant of it for now because the situation is crappy, complex, and nuanced all around. I don't like it. Pac may have slightly varying opinions on the matter.
The person being proposed by a couple people to run the boards here seems strongly against Megaman runs being tracked on this site to some degree, and seems to regularly get into strong disagreements over the topic, one of which was the reason for why this topic is being discussed right now. In my opinion the users were requesting to not have to work with the person creating strong disagreements at this site, which I still find to be a pretty reasonable request given the circumstances.
Is there some middle ground in between "People can't track runs here" and "Board moderation isn't representing the community"? Serious question.
There is also this old thread on the topic: http://www.speedrun.com/The_Site/thread/pb5j2
I'm happy to keep talking about this until a middle ground can be found that makes everyone happy. As long as the game is properly represented on SR.com and anyone who wants their PB's on here gets what they want, I think I'd be satisfied. I'm fully against holding anyone back from being able to shine on SR.com if that's what they choose for themselves.
"Mega Man, alternatively written as Megaman and MegaMan, known as Rockman (ロックマン? Rokkuman) in Japan, is a video game franchise created by Capcom, starring the robot character Mega Man, or one of his many counterparts."
I've said what would be a good middle ground but I'll say it again.
Mod someone here that is from MMRTA that is reasonable, if that's not possible find a trustworthy person who runs X3 that would keep their values in heart. At this time the only thing different is PS1 and XC being combined instead of separated (MMRTA considers MMXC it's own game).
Link to MMRTA in each game's categories as an alternative leaderboard, that way players who have their runs submitted on srcom don't delete their times and use the inaccuracy argument.
Don't discourage people from submitting to either site, MMRTA is going to always be the most up to date and if there is someone that wants to reflect that on srcom, let em.
There's already a link to the MMLB site in the rules section of every X3 category that we've got listed.
How difficult/time consuming would it be to implement a system where you can add a PB time to your sr.com profile and have it hyperlink to joka's website (or deertier, dkcwiki etc)? Instead of hoping that someone finds the tiny ass 'view rules' button which only then opens a window w/ the hyperlink, or having a half-complete leaderboard with names that don't link to profiles, submitting runs on peoples' behalf (they don't like that usually), having the first place time be done by the legendary "world record." I don't see why it can't be a thing where you search X3 on sr.com and all that comes up is a link to the already established LB.
whatever is done it can't be this, and I would certainly rather a trusted LB mod from mmrta handle it should it even come to sr.com (which i personally don't believe it should)
If a person's name doesn't link to their SR.com profile, it might mean they don't have a SR.com profile. Nordren is an example of this. My understanding is he has no profile on SR.com, yet still has personally given me permission to submit X3 runs on his behalf. With that having been said, there's his run for all to see.
Nobody who currently has a VOD submitted to this board has had it placed there without giving me permission first. I've talked to every one of them and got their blessing. There shouldn't be any concern over whether or not people might not like it.
World record is world record. I'd be happy to give credit to LuizMiguel for that World Record spot that is rightfully his, but he doesn't want it. Luiz wants nothing to do with this site unless it's to keep the rest of us from using it. If he doesn't want his name here, I respect that decision. Regardless, the WR should be known. It's a part of X3 history and it'll be represented one way or the other.
Luiz isn't diametrically opposed to leaderboards existing on this site as he is being made out to be. The notion of deleting the leaderboards came about when Laseki added an XC run to the SNES boards and then a separate arbitrary category which isn't on mmrta and only one person runs. Keep in mind Luiz was moderating the boards here before he was removed as moderator for disagreeing with Laseki over these desicions, and it was Laseki who deleted the leaderboards because of the blowback he received for how disgracefully he and Crisco handled the situation.
After speaking with Luiz just now, he and I, who are both X3 moderators on mmrta, have agreed to moderate the speedrun.com leaderboards to keep them in parity with mmrta. We will manually re-add the runs that were deleted, and will verify runs which are submitted here along with the help of other moderators who the community can trust. This will satisfy your middleground of allowing people to track runs here and having moderation that represents the community.
This middleground, however, should not include keeping CriscoWild as a moderator for several reasons:
- He is not an mmrta moderator.
- He is not a notable X3 runner with a top time in any category.
- Was appointed moderator by Laseki, who no longer wishes to moderate these leaderboards, without the consultation of Luiz or any of the other mmrta moderators.
- Went behind the community's back to get Luiz removed as a moderator simply as a result of 2 forum posts in the moderator request thread instead of consulting the community on discord, because he knew that wouldn't fly with 99% of the people in it.
- Declared he would take over as "sole moderator" and acted like this gave him some sort of supreme mandate to do whatever he wanted with the leaderboards after getting Luiz removed and usurping sole moderation for himself in such an underhanded way.
I don't trust him in the slightest to be a moderator after pulling a stunt like this, nor do I think he really had any business being one in the first place.
Backing Hetfield on this one, if you two can keep the boards up that'd awesome. Hopefully Luiz unblocks me at some point so i can apologize for acting like an impulsive jackass through the whole thing.
I'm not sure how to respond to this but we definitely need some moderators from MMRTA to be on srcom since it would make it a balanced middleground, but giving complete control to a site that doesn't wish to be on here is not a middle ground, that's a takeover.
If crisco or someone crisco appoints in his place is thrown in the mix, then you'd have compromise and that'd be more preferred, otherwise put the incident behind and start anew.
Agree with removing CriscoWild as mod and adding Luiz and Hetfield instead. The fact this even happened shows this website is seriously flawed.
Scratch what I said, I think this policy is a much better way http://www.speedrun.com/mmx4/thread/apovd
From the X4 thread, I like this idea a lot
Why doesn't Luiz post here himself if he wants to be mod again?
Also, how is a faster version of the game "arbitrary" on a speedrun leaderboard?
Hetfield90, you're mistaken about why Laseki and I asked to have Luiz removed as a moderator. Your belief is that it was done because we disagree with his decision making but that's not the case. We asked Luiz to be removed because he's both toxic and paranoid, in addition to not having the site's best interests at heart. It's cool that you're all super interested in working on this site now, but it's a little late in the game for all this. You've all had years to work on this before I ever touched Mega Man X and you got nothing done. It's my turn now. I intend to make the most of this opportunity and set up the boards as well as I can. Now, I'm totally willing to take advice from anyone here who wants a say, but you're not getting mod status. Everyone here knows how you really feel about the site and any play to get re-involved is a means to an end for you guys to shut this down. I won't allow that.
As an aside, if I need to start showing screenshots, I will. Say the word.
Laseki, you were not acting like an impulsive jackass and you don't owe anyone an apology. Luiz blew up on you because you made what amounts to a tiny mistake with one of the categories. These guys are being jerks to you. You deserve better and you know it.
Zewing, I'm fully willing to take on a second mod to help me out with this site. Frontrunners are Laseki, Zewing, and Justin. The following people are out of the question: Luiz, Hetfield, Akiteru, Nu.
Akiteru, if you really think this website is seriously flawed, you shouldn't waste so much time on it. Focus on making MMLB the best it can be and let me make SR.com the best it can be. In fact, why don't you hit me up with mod status for X1 and you can help me work on that board too? .
Cyberdemon531, that's a really good question. If Luiz doesn't care enough about being mod to request it himself, it's hard to imagine a reason why he ought to be given it. Let him come here and make his case. He's a grown man, he can speak for himself.
Also, since the mods of MMLB in Hetfield and Luiz have agreed that they'd be willing to manually re-add all the runs that were deleted, I'm going to take that to mean I have permission to do it myself. I'll start on that immediately. Thank you Hetfield and Luiz for being willing to compromise here. I hope this is the start of everyone working together towards good things.
This is the single most autistic thing I have ever witnessed. Crisco you're on a freaking power trip. Someone just take all the boards on MMRTA and make a copy over here it really is not that hard.
I'm not on a power trip. I just want SR.com boards to work. No one else wanted to do it so I'm going to do it.
exactly the same thing i did for MMPU since nobody gave a fuck on mmrta anyway
