Hello everyone, I saw another thread like this but it is 5 years old so I opened this new one.
My question is if I play the PS1 version will it be on the same leaderboards as the PC version or can the admins make a tab or something like that for the PS1 version?
I know no one runs on PS1 as far as I've seen but I like the PS version and I played it as a kid before playing it on PC years later I think, so that's one reason I want to play and run the PS version instead of the PC one, others are compatibility with newer Windows, don't want to CTD or something similar, etc.
Thanks in advance!
afaik PS1 Diablo is a totally a different game and should be in another category
Should be its own category definitely...
At first sight: different load times, less glitches, less exploits... probably more differences floating around...
Thought about running a PS1 version, it's the only one I've played back then, but then moved to other stuff though...
Yeah it's what I thought, also frames per second, the controls are different and so on. I weirdly find the PS1 version easier to hit things, better than D3 console versions IMO, even more weirdlier lol
I will play it again, it's been some time and going for a speedrun later, in the meantime I will DM the admins about this.
Thanks for the replies!
moderators are unresponsible, categories need changes such as 1. belzebub mod (HD mod) should be in a separate modifications page (as The Hell 2 mod). 2. glitchless hc runs should be included into glitchless non-hc category, so glitchless non-hc will not be a records anymore, 3. category for PS1 version. etc.
Well maybe contact the staff of Speedrun.com itself then to see this, I didn't know about this until now, and yeah one mod is offline for 3 years straight and the other one is sorta online and doing runs but seemingly not maintaing the D1 page, maybe I'll contact the staff directly, maybe you Alukret and Matias could be the mods since you guys know all of this and replied really fast on my topic, it would be more fitting and you guys could do a better job at it
I sent a ticket, let's see what will they answer. I also had conversation with LaV a few months ago and he told that we need more moderators.
I actually did a run of this 2 months ago, so the timing of this post is perfect
I've created PS1 category and submitted Bluescreen18 run (pending now). Any suggestions for some special rules that should be applied for PS1 runs? What about Glitched/Glitchless PS1 categories ?
First, let me begin by saying that, the category should probably be called "Playstation Any%"
Next, I am going explain a lot of things.
The PS1 version does actually have 3 difficulties. They are: normal, nightmare and hell. Personally, I think the best way to start the timer is when you select the difficulty, since that's when the first loading screen starts.
Another thing I like to point out is that this version also has a "character import" feature simply referred to as "Save character" and "Load character" respectively, which I didn't use since I think that's cheating. Hypothetically speaking that can be it's own category in itself.
As for glitches, you can actually dupe use items in this version. I actually did this in my run. I duped bunch of Mana shield scrolls since finding a book of Mana shield is quite luck dependent.
Another thing I want to point out is that the "Mana shield" exploit can also be done in this version but for some reason it took me a long to realize that I could do that. I did this trick eventually in my run to save a bunch of time, since I figured I don't actually have to kill everything.
Glitchless on PS1 is currently almost the same as any% at the moment so there really is no point of it. As for HC, doing run like that is technically faster since the save/load times on PS1 are actually really long.
Personally, I don't think you really need to add any category at the moment since nobody besides me runs PS1 version.
Lastly I like to point out, as I am writing this post it currently says "Emulators are banned". I have the feeling that this rule was made for PC runners in mind, which I think is kind of odd.
The PS1 version lags quite a lot. It lags even more when you have to map enabled and it lags even more when there is much happening on the screen. I've noticed that the game lags significantly more on real console then on emu, so I think real hardware and emu need to be split.
Anyway, if anyone has any question about my run or this post then feel free to ask about it here.
Thanks for deep explanation! Unfortunately I never played PS1 version, only saw someone play.
Category renamed, rule about starting timer changed, rules about "character import" added.
Obviously in "PS1 Any%" glitches are ok, so duping is also ok. But what do you mean by "Glitchless is almost the same as Any%" ? If you used duping then playing without duping will make the game harder, isn't it? Also about save/load times, if it took much time, it can be subtracted from total time. Though doing this manually is a pain.
I have no idea what is the sense of "emulators is banned" so I removed this. As for PS1 category I think it's fine to play on real console or emulator. When you submit PS1 run you can choose between PS1 and PC. By the way, you played using real console or emulator?
I agree, if a real console version is more laggy, we can create a separate category for it. But since there is only one run submitted, I think I leave it as it is.
"If you used duping then playing without duping will make the game harder, isn't it?"
Yes and no.
The dupe method that works on PS1 is significantly weaker since you can't dupe anything except use items. Most use items are not that useful, so doing this method is usually a waste of time. Manipulating Adria is also usually a waste of time since you need to save and load the game every time.
In the run I posted I didn't get a book of mana shield so I duped a scroll of mana shield several times instead, which in sorc case is a must have item along with the fire wall spell. Running sorc without these spells is a pain in the ass.
Warrior melee runs are far more consistent since you can a lot of times just tank the enemies as it is since he has a larger health pool. The downside of this strat is that you need good resistances to survive hell, with the hardest part of the run being Lazarus and Diablo's entire room.
"By the way, you played using real console or emulator?"
I used a real NTSC PS1 since I like having an authentic feel. Nothing beats playing on a CRT using a real PS1 controller.
I'd like to suggest to allow the use of a turbo/speedup button while the game is saving/loading. The waiting times when loading a level or saving a character seem to be hardcoded into the game, so speeding those up makes the run much more enjoyable (to me at least).
I did a run almost a year ago (that I didn't submit because I used a 10x speedup during the waits) which you can see here if you're curious what it looks like:
Allowing speedup would make timing runs a little more difficult since you'd have to add the loading times back in order to compare against runs not using this. So you'd have to check/retime every run using speedup. But personally I would not want to run the PS1 version with the slow loads, that just makes it too boring.
I am completely against speedups buttons for a simple reason: You can't access it on a real hardware, making it extremely unfair.
Another reason is that it would create a massive headache for the moderators to check if you are using the speedup only when you are saving and loading which I can't imagine them wanting to do this.
Most PS1 leaderboards do allow faster loads from the PS2 console so you can still do that.
Haven't tried playing this game on PS3, So I can't tell you if that loads faster but if it does then I guess that would be allowed too.
I don't see how it makes it unfair if the loading time gets added back or entirely removed from all runs (one of these obviously must be done).
It would definitely increase verification/timing efforts quite a bit, the question is whether it's worth it overall for the community. If the amount of runs using it is small, it's probably okay. I'd even be fine with retiming it myself but of course the problem is always whether a runner can be trusted to do it accurately for their own run.
While it is doubtful that I'll revisit the PS1 version in the first place, I definitely know I won't run it with the default loading times. If it does run faster on other consoles, that might be a fair compromise and the better alternative. I just remember experimenting with some of the emulator settings and not getting any difference in the loading times.
The problem I see with using emulator speedup is that its going to be used somewhat arbitrarily. Adding in a variable as to how "efficiently" someone used it. Idk, given how small the community is and how small support is for the PSX ver of Diablo I guess I wouldn't be hugely opposed to it if that's what everyone wanted, but it seems like kind of an ugly way to handle things.
I've had to deal with this headache on a number of other boards I mod for. It's just better off splitting sub-categories between emulator/real hardware imo. If the community ever got big enough and the run received enough support you could look at adding people to do load removal (not me, I've done it lol .. I pity anyone who would need to do it for a game as long as this).
It sux that there is no consistent/fair way to compare RH to Emulator for PSX games but its the reality.
The only other option I can think of is studying an appropriate "average bonus/penalty time" for emulator compared to PS2 fast disc speed and adding/subtracting that from the final run-time. You would have to enforce everyone using exactly the same emulator and same emulator version to ensure that the loading time would be somewhat consistent between people on emulator so that the penalty/bonus would be fair.
I have no idea how this speedhack works, and how to detect its usage outside loading screen, but in this discussion I prefer to re-time runs and subtract loading times from the final result (I checked the only run and loading DLVL1 took 20 seconds which is a real pain).
@Skytis I think you can submit your run until we decide what to do.
I'm not very familiar with PS1 emulators but maybe there is one that overlays some text as long as the speed up feature is being used? While it would suck limiting people (who want to use speed up) to emulators that can do this, it would make retiming much easier as you'd just need to count the frames during which the text is shown.
And people who don't use speed up could still just run on their emulator of choice.
As for detecting people abusing it: If someone ran the game at a very mild speed increase (like 1.01x) it would be difficult to spot just by looking at it, but you could try to find a part in the run where they walk for x tiles nonstop and check how long that takes. Although such a minor speed increase wouldn't improve their time by much anyway (and a big speed increase would obviously be noticeable).
