Hello, Michael here.

I wanted to make a huge elaborated post showcasing in detail every single thing I am aware of the Super Cock and Balls Torture™ glitch, but if I did I would've never even started to write this post down as there is just too much to take account of and I'm honestly just too lazy to record it all. And on top of it, I doubt you lads would even read it all anyway.

So, let's just start with the basics. What is this Super Rooster™ Glitch?

It is the combination of three things:

1. True Analog Movement
2. Shuffle
3. Input Stacking

Which basically allow you to sprint out of elevators while their doors are opening.

This is what it looks like (infinite Socom/Stuns and Skill Issue© not included in the final product):

The process works like this:

1. True Analog properties allow Snake to move for a frame when loading a new zone, because they take priority over some animations and loadings. This can be seen basically on every single transition the game has to offer, but it is noticeable mostly during Miller's first codec call and after boss fight, where Snake is respectively able to keep crawling while being called by Miller and turn around before the rank up animation after defeating a Boss.

2. However, if we pair this to the Shuffle, things get more complicated. That initial step could in theory be used to keep moving while the transitions are done, but there is not enough momentum for it to work with a single half step. BUT(T)! Elevators don't have true zone transitions, as the game basically puts a fake loading and freezes the game to give the impression of the elevator going up or down. And during this time, we can actually use hotkeys to shuffle and if we combine that with that half step due to True Analog and build enough momentum, that initial half step gets pushed until we are able to move normally again.

3. ...That if we manage to build enough momentum, as I said. And to build enough momentum, we basically have to stack enough hotkey inputs so the mash we did during the freeze gets unleashed at the very first frame of that step. And that is easier said than done, because stacking inputs is based on input delay. The more input delay there is, the better and easier result we'll have, as those mashes will actually stay around for a longer time.

And now to what that actually translated to during 1 week of trial and errors and many many MANY curses to every single god known to mankind (and much more):

1. With my keyboards:

• Chinese Avazz keyboard or whatever it is: I'm able to do such trick, even if its consistency is very lacking due to my lack of practice aka SKILL ISSUE
• Old Cooler Master keyboard: I'm also able to pull off such trick with some consistency if I adjust the rhythm to a slower one, and the numpad definitely helps here

2. With my 8bitdo Pro 2 Pad:

• hotkeys bound with reWASD: It has a 101% success rate IF I use the trigger buttons and just mash with whatever rhythm or consistency I want, not so much if I use any other button on the controller
• hotkeys bound with Joy2Key: I've never ever been able to get it even once, no matter what buttons I used. However, with admin rights I was able to take a few steps and almost get out of the elevator if I mashed like a madman

3. With my Xbox Series X Pad:

• hotkeys bound with reWASD: doable, but wildly inconsistent either with or without admin rights, triggers or not and many extra settings to change and adjust sensivity of the shoulder presses
• hotkeys bound with Joy2Key: impossible without admin rights, slightly doable with rights. Definitely a no go regardless, but didn't try a lot considering the previous 8bitdo Pro 2 results and these initial results looking similar

4. With my old Dualshock 3 Pad:

• with reWASD: Same result as the 8bitdo Pro 2 with reWASD, absolute king
• with Joy2Key: Just no. No matter what.
• with DS4Windows: very consistent results using the triggers from the get go, even if reWASD is still king

Now, this is my personal experience which may or may not vary wildly compared to your own. I don't have footage of all these tests because I didn't want to record an entire week of tests and bestemmie to understand how the game wanted me to press them buttons, so feel free to believe me or not. However, I encourage you to make your own tests with multiple devices if you're really interested on the subject.

Now, to sum it up if you didn't want/care to read:

The Super Cock/Super Shuffle is a combination which requires the Analog Patch to be installed in order to be performed, so Snake can take a half of a step out of the elevator thanks to True Analog properties, and with enough Input Stacking between hotkeys, use that as a proxy to Shuffle out of the elevator. And in order to do that, having a device with enough Input Delay either physical or artificial, makes stacking such inputs much easier.

This glitch started showing itself into runs on the boards out of nowhere after the Analog Patch was introduced without a clear explanation of what was going on, so here's how it works in comprehensible detail.

However, being an unintended result of the Analog Patch, I believe it requires a vote to either be grandfathered or kept in, so when someone else comes in the future asking how it works and how to reproduce it, the response won't be "idk good luck ¯_(ツ)_/¯" anymore.

And in case you're wondering why this thing pops out out of nowhere only now, it's simply because no one else brought it up before and I cared to deeply look into it myself only now as I want my next runs to not be in a grey zone. And the whole thing casually coincides with the introduction of minimal install, which basically made the boards a new free for all field, making it a perfect time to bring up the discussion and making the grandfather proposal a viable choice if chosen.

Key Points to consider before voting:

• The glitch itself is the natural result of True Analog movement + Hotkeys
• The Analog Patch is required in order to perform the glitch
• Personal hardware could be an issue and create inconsistencies between runners

Here's the poll, do you want to keep the Super Cock/Super Shuffle glitch on the boards or not?

A) Keep it as it is

B) Grandfather already existing runs that use it and ban it for future use

C?) Keep it as it is for Very Easy Any% and All Bosses, but grandfather already existing runs and ban it for future use on any other difficulty

I bet most of you would correctly guess my vote at this point, but I don't want to express my personal stance to not influence the poll and also because as the master José Mourinho once said: "I prefer not to speak, if I speak I am in big trouble"

A full week seems enough time to decide in my opinion, the poll will end the 10th of November.

A in my opinion. Runs already have it and everybody can do it. I think it's a bit late to just get rid of this at this point. I'll let others give an opinion before I write a book (if necessary).

Super Cock and Balls Torture lmao

I love speedrunning

There's crazier things that are legal, and it'd be too much of a hassle to shuffle/fix/whatever the boards. Much ado about nothing imo.

I vote A.

This version of the game is absolute dogshit, it barely worked initially. BMN launcher and a lot of patches made it stable. So overall the game has already been moded hundreds of times. Those modifications were made only to make life easier and have a runnable game.

Analog patch is one of those modifications. It should have been in the original game, it wasn't cause this version sucks. However I consider BMN almost like a member of the dev team of this version. All those modifications were needed to be able to run the game consistently. Supercock is just the result of those modifications to make the game runnable. As I said it's not because the game was modded than the supercock works, it's because we have hotkeys on the keyboard. If you could equip weapons with keys on console version then the supercock would work aswell.

Anyway there has been so many modifications at that point than it's not even clear what should or shouldn't be allowed. It's too tricky. Because where do we draw the line ? If supercock is banned then the analog patch will be on the table. And then maybe the Psycho Mantis No Controller Check patch. And then the music patch etc etc. This would never stop. The only thing that crossed the line for me is the area reloader, but it made VE a different category, even tho it's a meme now.

I think supershuffle is not in cause, it's just the result of having life easier on the game with something the devs should have did by themselves (actually they did but they "forgot" to activate it or they had trouble activating it). I'm not a huge defender of supershuffle, 90% of MGS runners never used it and a lot of them barely heard about it I think, and it's not like it would save 2 minutes on a run, it's just seconds. But on the other hand if some people can't perform it at all then it's a real question. But so far I've never heard about anyone saying he couldn't do it.

Anyway to summarize I will vote A. Not because i'm almost the only one using it, but because I don't think it's a super cheated buggy thing to add in a run like using a gameshark or whatever. To me both points of view are valid, but I don't think it's that big of a deal. And I'm worried about where it will lead on future questions like analog patch etc (I will stop running this game if analog patch is banned btw no more flickering on keyboard).

i do think we shouldve had a vote on the thing when it was discovered but we've just been (mistakenly without a vote imo and im also guilty of not bringing it up) verifying runs with it. Since I don't use analog in the first place I will abstain unless for some weird reason there's a tie and base my vote on information provided here. So worst case Limes writes his book along with anyone else that feels the need to write their own.

@iLL_Pazzo The Analog Patch itself had a very lenghty and meaningful set of votes and even if I still believe PC should've stayed with 8 way movements for many reasons, the majority has voted and I accepted the result even if I was probably the worst offender against it. There is no turning back now as erasing people's efforts from a board is just NOT right in any circumstance unless they cheated or something.

And if anything, I created this whole discussion on purpose to set said roof and prevent future runs to be removed because the glitch wasn't regulated anywhere on the rules, only a few people knew about it and even less used it, not to set the basis to erase already existing runs in the future because somebody doesn't like them or can't beat them anymore.

If anything already had a previous vote and is already established on the boards, I believe it must stay either we agree with the rules that were allowed when said runs were accepted or not, as the boards are made by the majority of individuals and on big boards like these there will always be discordance between one thing or another, so better be clear about things from the start and prevent unnecessary issues.

In the case of the F7, I don't personally know how it was introduced as I was on forced "vacation" at the time, but if there was no vote about it I don't see why it shouldn't be discussed, even though I don't see it going away anytime soon considering it's the main attraction of VE itself.

Sunday has arrived and looks like things will officially remain the same for good.

Still, a new entry on the rules clarifying its status on Any%/AB/Glitchless would be appreciated.

Thanks for voting!