Yo,

I post this thread to describe what a 100% category would look like. Taking into account all the collectables of the game, the 3 following conditions must be satisfied:

1. 100% Level Completion: You have to pick all the required coins, then show the "100%" screen at the end of each level. That includes picking all the permanently visible coins, and all the coins released by defeated enemies. If a coin is missed, the 100% will drop, thus the run is invalidated.

2. All Letters: You have to collect all the letters in the levels in which they appear, then show "HERCULES" in full letters at the end of the level. Missing a letter invalidates the run.

3. All Vases: You have to pick all 4 vases which contribute to creating a password, then show the password screen at the end of each level. Missing a vase invalidates the run. The trophies that give an extra life do not count as vases, missing those is fine.

If a screen is not shown in order to prove that all the conditions have been fulfilled, then the run will be invalidated.

I did runs under those conditions for the Medium difficulty on the PC version. This is what my best run looks like:

If you ever find this run interesting enough to consider creating an official 100% category, that would be cool.

Regards.

First of all; nice run. 

I personally think this is a fair category suggestion and more true to the spirit of a 100% speedrun than just "All Letters". I see no issue in having both an “All Letters” and a “100%” category.

Some questions:

How does the coins work on boss-levels? Is 100% just all collecting all coins that have spawned or could finishing before still give you 100%?

I noticed you died on purpose on Hades. I assume it's a "safety death" because you only had 2/4 vases and didn't want to risk killing Hades before getting the final 2 vases. You seem to have a pattern on Hydra to ensure all vases, but are vases just pure random on Hades?

My main complaint would be from a verification perspective. Since there’s no coin counter on screen at any point during the level we have to force runners to show the entire score screen as you mention. It’s a bit counterintuitive to wait on something skippable, but it’s the only solution I can think of.

"How does the coins work on boss-levels? Is 100% just all collecting all coins that have spawned or could finishing before still give you 100%?"

On Boss levels, unlike other levels, there are no permanent coins on the field. They are only coins that can spawn randomly from hitting Hades, falling rocks for Hydra, and skeletons for Medusa. Any coin that has spawned will impact the 100% counter at the end of the level. If a spawned coin isn't picked, it will vanish and then the 100% counter will decrease. So you have to pick them as quickly as possible once they spawned.

"You seem to have a pattern on Hydra to ensure all vases"

Yes the vases spawn following a very precise pattern on Hydra. Firstly, you must cut two heads, you'll have then six heads left to be cut. Secondly, the 4 vases are respectively released by cutting the 2nd, 4th, 1st and 7th head in that order. Finally, you will have the two last heads to be cut, you can cut them wherever between the vases.

"are vases just pure random on Hades?"

From what I experimented, on a normal Any% Hades level, you can get only 3 vases from hitting him. So in order to get the 4th vase, you have to death abuse after a few hits. The amount of hits that makes each vase spawn is pretty random, so we cannot rely on a minimum hit strategy. To be safe, I death abused right after getting the 2nd vase.

"we have to force runners to show the entire score screen"

Yes, we cannot just evaluate and count the coins that have been picked during the levels. For example, some coins can spawn out of screen from falling rocks on Hydra. We cannot tell if a coin spawned and vanished out of screen until the 100% counter has been shown. Another example in Centaur's Forest, if a bird is killed behind a tree and releases a coin hidden by the tree, we cannot tell with certainty that the coin has been picked or not. So the runner has to show the entire score screen. Besides, displaying your "Hero rating" which results from the 100% score must be part of "100%".

Also, on the PC version, if you skip the "HERCULES" screen, you will also skip the "100% counter" screen entirely because those screens are linked. So you have to wait for each letter to be cleared. On the PSX version however, you can skip the "HERCULES" screen and then show the 100% counter screen because they are independent screens. So the PSX version is technically faster than PC version after removing the loads.

Cool, thank you.

So, on boss-levels, if you finish before all possible coins had a chance to spawn you will still get 100% if you collected all that did spawn?

Does the same go for normal levels? Can coins that spawn upon enemy death be ignored if said enemy is never killed?

Let's give it a week or so to see if others have comments, but to me there's a clear distinction between 100% and All Letters and a 100% category has a lot of general speedrunning merit too. It's not overly complicated or arbitrary either. Other than the score screen thing I see no reason this should not be a category.

"So, on boss-levels, if you finish before all possible coins had a chance to spawn you will still get 100% if you collected all that did spawn?"

Yes, the 100% counter will take into account only the loaded coins. By "loaded" I'm referring to all the coins that are still on the field, have been picked or have vanished. The coins that can spawn won't be loaded until they have actually spawned. On boss-levels, you can theoretically get an infinity of spawned coins, but only the coins that have been loaded will impact the 100% counter. The total score formula is something like 100 * (1 - Total unpicked loaded coins / Total loaded coins) %.

"Does the same go for normal levels? Can coins that spawn upon enemy death be ignored if said enemy is never killed?"

Yes, for normal levels, the coins that can spawn from an enemy won't be loaded until that enemy is actually killed and has released the coin. So you can just ignore as many enemies as possible and run directly to the end of the levels.

For the running levels Hero's Gauntlet and Passageways of Eternal Torment, once you took a path (either left or right), all the coins on the other path won't be loaded because the field itself isn't loaded. So you just have to pick everything on the paths you chose to take. Besides, because of the checkpoint immediately after each divided path, you cannot take the other path by death abusing.

For fairness between both PC and PSX version, we can simply ban skipping the "HERCULES" screen for the PSX version. I agree that it would be weird but it's a simple solution. That skip is possible on PSX due to a structural difference between both versions, just like the extra loads, except that the loads are removed for both versions.

Alrighty, no one seems to have any objections or further questions. I'll look into how to best deal with coin counting and start implementing this category to the leaderboards soon.

I see three possible solutions:

1. Runners must show the entire score screen, skipping at no point during. This can be limited to not skipping the "HERCULES"-letters, as NinjaCocktail described above.

2. Runners must show coin counter reaching 100%, but can skip the rest (gives a big advantage to PSX-runs)

3. Runners must show coin counter reaching 100%, but the entire score screen is, for this category only, counted as loading time and removed from the run (eliminating PSX and PC differences).

100% has been implemented. You can now upload your run(s).