Is there any chance that there will ever be a no-items leaderboard? And in a hypothetical world where there is one, what would be the best strats for getting the lowest possible time? And would emulators be allowed (ie: the one specified in the resources section)? What about segmenting? Maybe make it based on the in-game timer, like some of the categories already do?
Just spitballing here, as I've tried this category with an Albert funnel and a Rose funnel, and have done it slightly faster with Rose funnel, but am wondering if funnelling Dart or Haschel would be faster? What do you think?
If emulator is allowed, and it's based on the in-game timer, I would seriously consider running this category.
Item-less would be a modified Albert route. Mees and I spoke about it previously and it's extremely do able.
Dart (dead), Haschel (alive), Albert (alive) would be considered fastest way to beat the game. You would only have to focus on completing additions with two characters instead of three and also saves you animation time by having Dart dead. Before Dart dies he can be a slave to the others using boosters/healing items before dying. Dying as in making sure to not get a portion of the EXP pool after a battle.
Additions: Gust of Wind Dance, 5 Ring Shatter/Hex Hammer (depending on your skill level 5 Ring Shattering has no counters at all while Hex Hammer is the most difficult addition in the game when being countered). Personally I prefer 5 Ring Shattering since you get it earlier in the run to build it up to higher strength. Hex Hammer is gotten very late and can be a struggle to even level up to LV 2 before Melbu Frahma. Albert gets his addition very early at LV 11 so you can have time to max it out I believe by the end of the run.
Another alternative would be to use Albert + Kongol (solo with Albert through Disc 1 as much as possible) and start duo when Kongol joins the party. The biggest benefit is Kongol's super-quick attack animation and his first addition is pretty much the best in a speedrun setting. However, in this scenario your best bet would be to get two Bandit's Rings which can only be gotten if you get 1 from Drake and one in a chest before recruiting Kongol. If no Bandit's Ring is gotten throughout the run you would buy Attack Badge at start of Disc 3 to give to Albert and Kongol would carry the Bandit's Ring. Kongol being slow might seem like a disadvantage, but at the same time if Albert gets more turns he builds up his addition to max faster and deals more damage while Kongol is the slave who only attacks when boosters/healing items are not necessary. His addition only builds up with 10% anyway so number of completed additions does not matter.
It's up to the community to start running it. If more than 1 runner is running a category it will be added if it's not a super-silly joke category. I would probably run with Kongol in that route just for fun.
"Dart (dead), Haschel (alive), Albert (alive)" But then you're splitting XP instead of funnelling it; seems like that would result in a slower run. "Before Dart dies he can be a slave to the others using boosters/healing items before dying." He can't. No items truly means no items. " Hex Hammer is the most difficult addition in the game when being countered" I would argue Demon's Dance. " If more than 1 runner is running a category it will be added if it's not a super-silly joke category." I would argue that no-items is less silly than some of the categories that currently have leaderboards.
Well, in that case no charm potions can be used. Which will drive away most players. I was under the impression you would just remove throwable magic items which is the overpowered aspect of the English release. Straight up removing potions and angel's prayer will make this difficult. In that case Therapy Ring and X character would solo everything. I'm never gonna run this. LOL
Huh, you said English release. Is throwing items weakened in Japanese and other versions? What's their dominant strats then?
(Also agree that a "No Throwables" is interesting but "Completely no items" sounds much more tedious. Healing too would be annoying in battles.)
Yeah, in English release they buffed up the throwable magic items a lot. In the original version they were garbage and annoying. Only time it was worth using was in early disc 1 and against opposing elemental enemies. For instance if you are up against Jiango (Earth) you can throw (Wind spells). If you have no wind spells in JP version, then you are better off using additions pretty much.
In the JP version the strategies are the same as I mentioned above as a theoretical non-throwable run. Albert (Gust of Wind) + Haschel (Hex Hammer/5 Ring Shattering) additions throughout the entire game. Dart remaining dead throughout the whole playthrough. If you roll with the same characters the whole way through like in that case you don't really need to solo. While soloing does grant a bit more EXP to 1 of the characters, it's probably not gonna be worth the time investement forcing deaths of party members. Also should speed up the battles if you have two characters attacking since you kill the boss faster (less boss animations).
What you describe as a true itemless run sounds more like a challenge than a speedrun. It's going to rely on escape luck from random encounters. While it's definetly doable with solo character style and therapy ring, I think it's not really a fun experience to speedrun. I do think people would love a running without throwable magic items however. :) Which basically means Additions will be your source of damage, the way you remembered playing casually.
The time has come my dear friends... THE TIME HAS COME!
We will birth a category from this moment on... A non-throwables category will be born (All damage dealing items selected from the ITEM menu). I'm torn about whether SACHET will be counted towards this or not. Would be nice to have VS Jiango and Windigo. Thoughts? Ban or allow sachets? Only used for those two encounters. Also TOTAL VANISHINGS deal no damage but instant death so is it also allowed or banned? I'm going to be torn about these things. The Total Vanishings are only used to remove the pets in the battle second battle against Fruegel (and also one for a BOGY in disc 2).
Sachets and Total Vanishings are extremely limited and cannot be bought, so maybe it can be allowed. I don't know.
I'll be creating it this month. I will upload the guide for it as well. I hope I get time to run it soon to show case it.
I'm super-interested in this category where Miranda will be useless. No more OP strategies and you get to use Additions instead of the magic spam.
i dont think sachets and total vanishings and the like need to be banned. i think the main thing is just the button masher spells and the powerful all attack spells being removed for a category like that.
Well, we made "Addition%" where sachet and total vanishings are allowed. I did two runs second being 11:28. Total Vanishings on Freugel 2 pets and 1x Magician Bogy and Sachet on Jiango and Windigo heart. Also Wing Blaster on Ghost Commander to kill all at once. Haschel+Albert carry the run! Can probably get a 11:15 but need Drake to drop Bandit's Ring
BDD, can I please have the notes of Addition%, I can fix the layout to my liking afterwards as long as all the strats are down on the document. Thanks!
I guess Lasagna's Lv 60 Dart could be useful too. :) Thanks!
