Hey all, I know I'm not the most active and I'll likely to put up a proper post later tonight I just wanted to address option 2 as the "handheld mod".

The main reason I was against this a year ago when punchy brought up is still the same as it is now. There is simply not enough active runners to cover days and coded (gba com to a lesser extent). Hence I like having people who can cover for those games when I'm on work trips (like now). Also there is the side benefit of me doing stuff like reorganizing the bbs leaderboards but I dont really mind having less responsibility since I'm woefully ilequped for the console kh games.

Also as for com I know I know I reached out to ghost and got nothing back and never chased it up thats my bad and I should do better. It's just hard since com is mine and ghosts baby and I dont really wanna make the change even though I know I really should just to match the rest of the series (Recoded isnt changing though I will fight you all).

Anyway I'll discuss it with mods and do a proper post later since I haven't read any of the replies to this thread and only skimmed through the pastebin

I've updated the new runs i have no idea what runs have been claimed during my absence and as such please tell me so i can fix the mess this is.

[quote] The DS games are kind of a different ballgame because DS recording is a pain in the balls, but that kinda goes around to the point I had earlier about desiring some kind of game-specific rules/mods to decide this type of thing. Days has those unique rules, because DS capture is a weird special case.

Local recording/streaming a 10 hour run and being harsh on no skipping is obviously totally unreasonable (even though I think some of the final fantasy games still pull this off but eh idfk?), hence timer rule. [/quote]

In which case it is best we discuss this on a game by game and category by category as based on your first suggestion I think this really only applying to BBS, 0.2 and ILs right now.

[quote] Part of the argument in favour of timer rule was that it exists, at least partially, for moderator convenience. Drazerk even said that outright, which amusingly contradicts JHobz but I appreciate the honesty. [/quote]

Do remember that the mods aren't one single entity that all know what one another is doing (Nor do we always agree with one another), there is a similar rule to the timer rule in the DS games where you must show the emulator's fps and full screen at all times during a run for obvious reasons I hope you understand so I don't have to explain them here. I believe this timer rule mainly came about due to the PS4 games which sadly came after I had surgery and have been in hospital for basically the majority of this year so I'm not completely in the loop, personally I see the timer as an added benefit to the mods which helps speed up the verification process thus aid both the runners and the mods by removing workload on both sides (Which the timer actually does).

[quote] Change #3.5 REMIX: You honestly need to drop most of your global mods [/quote]

I'm sorry but there is nowhere near enough people who have ran the handheld games let alone run them actively (Yes yes I know I slack) to really make more moderators for them. At best you have me and Saiyanz and we are already mods, hence having global mods means they are able to cover these games when I am sick and unable to do anything in the community. You could make the argument that the games are dead anyway but we do occasionally get people running them from time to time and me and Saiyanz are not always there and I'd rather not have new runners wait multiple days for us to realize we need to verify a run.

Also I would like to add that we do do more stuff than verify, by being a global mod I am able to edit the rules of say KH2 or add a new category that another mod may not be able to do at that time and so on and so forth.

I can say that we are discussing the option of bringing in more mods. However I will say that asking for mod just like in a twitch channel probably isn't the best method to become one.

First of all I've not read most posts because I've been in hospital and I don't have time for all that but just skimming through all this I'm going to add my 2p.

First when it comes to forcing local recordings:

Before I make any sort of decision within this community I always ask "Will this get more people interested in the community and running the games". With this change you would probably be restricting more people from running the games which is why personally I'm not that keen, there is a big reason why we moved on from the SDA days where if there was even a slight skip in your video or your audio quality was sub par or you ran the wrong sort of capture card etc etc your run was rejected. No one enjoyed that, hence SDA sort of just died and we got google docs / spreadsheets and eventually now Speedrun.com

As for requiring we local record, have you seen the file sizes of a DS capture card local recording? A 10 minute video is 4-5gb its obscene I'd be looking at ~300gb for a level 1 run and yeah no that's not happening. Sure this is less of an issue for the console games but for the DS games I'd rather not deter more runners from already dead games.

I'd rather have 20 runners all with shit quality videos and streams dying than 1 runner with HD quality and everything looking crisp, its a fun hobby and you should remember that. We are not here to make videos we are here to have fun.

As for requiring a timer on the screen:

I've been speedrunning since the SDA days and was the first Days runner and the first person to seriously run Chain of Memories. Back then we didn't ask for a timer on the screen because SDA verification process was obscene and took weeks (Hell some games got stuck in verification limbo for a month+ especially the longer / less popular games) because they cared more about the video's quality more than "going fast".

The timer on the screen became a lot more common when we started engaging with the JP speed running scene due to NicoNicos 30 minute streaming limitation meaning that you would have your video completely and utterly destroyed and thus their timers were a nice way to keep track of how you were doing etc etc. Eventually we got Wsplit and it just sort of became the norm that if you weren't submitting to SDA then you would have the timer on the screen so people could easily just move to a certain point and see how you was doing.

The timer rule mostly makes life easier for mods, but I kinda have to ask why is it that much of an issue anyway, no one is forcing you to have splits or to even split at the end (last I checked), its just a timer on the screen. I'm sure Hobz and Sonic will come in and agree when we say we have made alterations to people's final time if they split late / early in the past and it wouldn't exactly be that difficult to do it again. A minuscule timer that takes up barely any processing power / storage space is far more reasonable than asking people local record and every KH game has some dead space you could throw it in.

As many of you know we typically review a console and see how its loading times match up to current submitted runs. When the new 3DS came out I tested its loading times for Days and Re:Coded but while I was doing this we temporarily prevented new 3ds runs from being added to the leaderboards before we finally decided to allow them. However, with backwards compatible PS3s the mods discussed the issue thoroughly and after multiple votes we came to the conclusion that runs on backwards compatible PS3s save too much time to be grouped in together with PS2s and so we banned the console due to the limited availability of the console. Any current backwards compatible PS3 runs we have found on the leaderboards have been removed due to them being submitted falsely.

After a recent set of votes, we have decided that backwards-compatible PS3 runs will not be banned altogether, but instead can be created as a miscellaneous category on any PS2 game if at least 2 people run it and request it (in order to foster competition). For those wanting to see the results you can see the strawpoll here:

which was the final runoff vote after an initial poll with more options:

In order for a new PS3 category to appear on one of the PS2 leaderboards, the following must occur:

1. A post must be created on the specific game's forum expressing intent
2. At least two people must add video links to runs done on backwards-compatible PS3s to the post (also saying they want the category added)

ps. Toji is a ちんこ

For the name I'd strongly recommend calling it no CoR skip or no major glitches over glitchless just to future proof the category (Case in point Re:Coded and the No Major Glitches category getting renamed or literally any LttP category).

Okay so I'm really ill right now so I've been out of the loop regarding pretty much everything the past month but I was told to check this thread so I thought I'd chip in and give my two cents as a leaderboard mod.

First when its come to making any serious change regarding Days / CoM / Re:Coded I've generally always asked two other mods their opinions before I do anything because that's what we should be doing as leaderboard mods, typically this is Saiyanz and Hobz because they are the two leaderboard mods I'm closest to and the two that are typically available. Not because I see them at a higher rank than myself or any of the other leaderboard mods. The one exception to this was when I brought up the discussion on Re:CoM categories because: A ) I don't actually run the game, I just like routing it B ) Hobz and Sonic were active runners so I held their opinions slightly higher

Personally I'd like to see the leaderboard Skype come back be it a discord or just the old group as like Silver I'm often not around so I miss a lot of information and sometimes discussions like this one should really be kept to ourselves rather than have everyone involved. Ideally we can have a discussion about the Twitch page there as the situation is pretty complex and we need to create strict rules and guidelines surrounding it before we give the information to anyone so until we do so I kind of agree with Hobz being the only one having control of it.

Liquid stole my money, congrats liquid

Just as an example for Hobz to use. I recently screwed up adding a NG+ Re:Coded run at one point as I forgot to check the Emulator box when I submitted it. If it wasn't for Saiyanz noticing I doubt it would have actually been changed at all. We all make mistakes and 2 eyes are better than 1 in these circumstances.

I agree with this

I think for the most part we are all for it and we've settled on a name most of us are happy with as well. I think we're just waiting for the PS3/PS2 split and for someone to actually run this category at this point.

Most of the rules seem to be fleshed out as well so I don't see any immediate issues we could have (Unless someone finds Floor glitch in Re:CoM).

As someone who has been testing this stuff for the past week. Let me assure you - It is very easy to accidentally open the wrong chest.

I've since confirmed that ultima weapon does exist in Re:CoM and Diamond Dust is just beat Marluxia 1 which is sad because it would be useful for Axel II.

Fairly sure Ansem / Lexaeus is beat Riku's story. No idea about Zexion / One Winged Angel however I think One Winged follows the same rules as Diamond Dust which is beat Marluxia 1.

@Muffin As far as I'm aware the only other bonus is the Ultima weapon Keyblade from a calm bounty in Castle Oblivion after beating both Riku and Sora's story. However I'm not even sure if that keyblade is in Re:CoM due to how awful calm bounty mechanics are in Castle Oblivion.

Finally while most of us are agreeing we should separate the categories Rebel managed to get Xigbar without the extra clear data. If enough people can reproduce this then the whole argument we are having here is moot (Unless we really want to restrict the ultima weapon if it exists).

So I know we've been discussing this in a bunch of people chats recently so trying to post some points that have come up:

Ideally we name the category Any% with extra clear data rather than NG+ We shouldn't punish people for picking up the wrong chest if they enter a key to rewards for Warp etc as the other category should only be for using the extra cards not picking them up.

Okay so this isn't actually NG+ since the method of obtaining extra items in each version of Re:CoM varies like so:

Re:CoM J - Have a 2FM save file on the memory card Re:CoM NA - Beat Rebirth reverse Re:CoM 1.5 - Watch the 358/2 movie.

So the debate now is do we limit the categories so you can't obtain any of the items from the second chests in a normal speedrun and create a new category or do we just allow everything?

List of all the items with the extra stuff being in the 2nd chests:

Below is a list of all the extra stuff:

Traverse Town 1.Lion Heart 2.Saix

Wonderland

1.Synchro 2.Xemnas

Agrabah

1.Warp 2.Luxord

Olympus Colisem

1.Metal Chocobo 2.Monochrome

Monstro

1.Aqua Splash 2.Xaldin

Halloween Town

1.Bind 2.Bond of Flame

Atlantica

1.Quake 2.Demyx

Neverland

1.Thunder Raid 2.Follow the Wind

Hollow Bastion

1.Mushu 2.Xigbar

Twilight Town

1.Stardust Breeze 2.Roxas

Destiny Islands

1.Mega Elixir 2.Photon Debugger

Castle Oblivion

1.Super Glide 2.Star Skeeker

Its also worth noting that the 1.5 version has even more items but I can't find a list of which one is in which world and the loading times for that version is another story.

Congrats to BB for claiming the first bounty. I have sent him the money.

Just to add to Salad's point I am pretty firm in the belief that as long as the run was verified at some point then it should stay on the leaderboards maybe adding a note as to why there isn't a video of it anymore (EG: Twitch is dumb or got high on KFC and accidentally deleted the VOD).

As for BB's points about parts missing from a VOD we've been pretty fine with it in the past so I don't see why that would change now. I know my Days J level 1 beginner any% WR is missing parts of the run because my internet going in and out but most leaderboard mods were okay with me adding it to the leaderboards despite this because I was streaming the entire thing (And the fact it has like 400+ deaths).

@bran While I get your edit was more aimed towards the console KH games I'm sure Saiyanz and other DS /CoM runners can agree with me when I say using a webcam for a handheld is really really painful / awkward to do. We've all done it because we wanted to show game play but dear god I never want to have to do it again and would just never post my times to the leaderboards if it came to having to go back to that scenario again and I know saiyanz is the same so I can't see any new person doing it when they're also struggling with the game as well.

That said I'm still okay requiring video proof for Days and Re:Coded given we have emus legal. Especially for Re:Coded since GOSU fucks with IGT / There isn't IGT for NG+ / We need to make sure glitches aren't used in No Major Glitches so its the only game where video proof kinda makes sense completely at all times.

Just to revisit an idea I had earlier in the thread. What if we combined game time with split time for KH2 / Days / Coded / DDD / BBS? This helps the need for some sort of proof and allows new runners to get some sort of foothold into the game before they reach the point we'd require video proof.

For the record segmented runs are confirmed slower for Days since every time you save you lose ~30-40 seconds IGT and I wouldn't accept emulated runs not streamed but it would give someone an option to get themselves known to the community. Obviously I don't know shit about any of the other games so they'd need testing etc but even then if someone wants to do a segmented run for a low time then I'd really pity them for the huge amount of wasted effort.